The met office have now issued a weather warning, now I appreciate that it is mainly directed at those outside in it all day. I have a factory that is like a greenhouse with strenuoius activity. I have massive concerns regarding the temprature. I know the regs have no upper limit but I feel its dangerous and have said so. The tempratures are only set to rise further this week, its going to get unbearable.

Are there any cases of companies or individuals being prosecuted due to an accident / death at work due to heat? Other than in the likes of a foundary?

I have forwarded on all the info, requested additional water and air con but gotten nowhere. I do honestly believe we will have an accident / incident due to the heat. I am genuinly concerned, our offices are no better as all but 1 air con unit doesn't work.

Turn it the other way = the regs state if the majority make representation about the working temperature then the employer MUST act.

In a previous employment we issued salt tablets as well as water during hot weather in an already hot factory.

The lack of salt can be just as debilitating if employees guzzle too much water

Years ago I worked for over three years in Libya. Temperatures well in excess of 34 deg C were not uncommon. However, I was based on the coast where relative humidity was often in excess of 90%! That was a real problem. At our production centre further in to the desert the temperature was often several degrees higher. However, as relative humidity was much lower it felt more comfortable.

We provided plenty of water and salt tablets. For a time this was a construction site (tanker loading terminal) but I do not recall ever having had a problem among our workforce due to heat. UV was by far the more concerning.

Chris

Temprature yesterday was above 40 degrees. struggling to get them extra water let alone salt tablets. air movement consists of fans blowing hot air around and we have grinding and welding activities adding to the mix. They don't even wear the required PPE half the time which is adding to my concerns regarding an accident due to lapses in concentration.

All I have been able to do is ask people to keep an eye on one another.

Originally Posted by: thunderchild

Temprature yesterday was above 40 degrees. struggling to get them extra water let alone salt tablets. air movement consists of fans blowing hot air around and we have grinding and welding activities adding to the mix. They don't even wear the required PPE half the time which is adding to my concerns regarding an accident due to lapses in concentration.

All I have been able to do is ask people to keep an eye on one another.

Under the welfare regs water should always be available and easily accessible so why are you struggling to get them water? If it is bottled the the company must still supply a ready supply of water or they are breaking the welfare regulations. They should also be allowing employees to take regular rest breaks above and beyond what they are entitled too if the temperature gets too hot. A quick 5-10 minute break whilst having a drink will work wonders for their health and morale.

As for employees not wearing PPE as a safety officer and a GMB rep they are leaving themselves wide open for a disciplinary of a gross misconduct charge if they or anybody else is hurt due to their actions. Is the PPE suitable if they are not wearing it, again the company must supply PPE that is suitable for those wearing it, PPE is not a one fits all type of kit in my experience.

Originally Posted by: Ackashaun

Originally Posted by: thunderchild

Temprature yesterday was above 40 degrees. struggling to get them extra water let alone salt tablets. air movement consists of fans blowing hot air around and we have grinding and welding activities adding to the mix. They don't even wear the required PPE half the time which is adding to my concerns regarding an accident due to lapses in concentration.

All I have been able to do is ask people to keep an eye on one another.

Under the welfare regs water should always be available and easily accessible so why are you struggling to get them water? If it is bottled the the company must still supply a ready supply of water or they are breaking the welfare regulations. They should also be allowing employees to take regular rest breaks above and beyond what they are entitled too if the temperature gets too hot. A quick 5-10 minute break whilst having a drink will work wonders for their health and morale.

As for employees not wearing PPE as a safety officer and a GMB rep they are leaving themselves wide open for a disciplinary of a gross misconduct charge if they or anybody else is hurt due to their actions. Is the PPE suitable if they are not wearing it, again the company must supply PPE that is suitable for those wearing it, PPE is not a one fits all type of kit in my experience.

Yes they have been told about water, breaks rests etc. Breeachesin the regs etc. I cannot make them do it however. "you can lead a horese to water...."

Diciplinary action......yeah I'd like to see some of that.

Yes, salt tablets are definitely out and isotonic drinks are in.

Cool rather than cold water, places to rest.

A heat stress policy should be developed addressing WBGTemperatures, ie taking into account relative humidity, radiant heat, workload, acclimatisation, appropriate PPE etc. All this can be found on the net

I had the pleasure of developing a policy in Abu Dhabi sometime ago-oil and gas company and one guy was expected to work in 74 degrees C-not for long-big deal. eh?He had to check for leaks in a sound proof box enclosing a jet engine driving a power train-designed by RR for Derbyshire, I guess!

Lots of heat stress but it was mainly labourers from Bangladesh, Indonesia , Phillipines etc NOT company employees-sounds like Qatar and the world cup construction debacle, eh? Something IOSH could do much more on, oh wait a minute haven't IOSH basically shut down the local IOSH branch in the region for financial reasons? [See the current thread ]

As for disciplinary action -trade union reps do not have duties, 'merely' functions so outside the scope for this. It all sounds like an unmet need for training, information and engagement perhaps. Involve them in the development of the policy? What are industrial relations like generally?

I think these temperatures are likely to become much more prevalent in future, eh?     Regards

Mike                  

Thanks for the responses.

I have advised, I have assessed but to no avail. Head + Wall = headache.

Management do not see an issue so there is nothing for them to deal with. The fact I disagree as do the workforce well.....nothing more I can do.

Gping to do a couple of heat stress assessment although I don't know why I am bothering if I'm honest.

In a previous role I worked for a well known bread manufacture. Wearing trousers, white coat, high-vis, hat, hair net and snood in close proximity to the ovens and lines was always fun in the summer.

Regular breaks, somewhere to cool down if you have the luxury of air con, job rotation if possible and plenty of fluids.

Give it a few months and everyone will be complaining it’s too cold and slipping over on ice.

I see that HSE have made their home page topical by putting a direct, prominent link to their heat stress guidance on it subtitled "Is it too hot to work?"

And my captcha is tBkW - to bake.

From what you've described I think your workplace / employer is entirely beyond any help!

Time to polish the CV - sounds like a management from the Victorian era where anything goes unless the law specifically says otherwise

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel

Originally Posted by: thunderchild

Kate, yes I saw that yesterday but it doesn't help me. There is no maximum so therefor we dont have a problem.....aparently.

You do have a problem but it is not the heat it is the management!

Hell yes but I am powerless to change it.

Out of interest what actual temperature is it in the workplace? 

Why have none of the employees reported the situation to the HSE (especially during the winter)? Fear of job even though it can be anonymous.?

I dislike these threads where we get the solution of leave ASAP, leaving the organisation to continue with bad practice and at the expense of the other workers. I don’t see why good people should lose or change job just because the senior management are muppets. There has to be another alternative. Perhaps FFI or fines should be doubled / trebled where good advice from Safety person is ignored.

Chris

I suspect if you complained about the heat to the HSE they would do nothing at this moment. I think if there was a complaint about the cold come winter months then they may investigate.

However, is there anyone in any type of senior role who you could get on your side? that may be able to lend support for H&S issues. Sometimes senior people may be influenced by others in the organisation (Who has the MD’s ear so to speak). It is a slow process but if you can do this you may make headway all be it slowly.

Have others in your industry (especially if they are known to your company) had similar issues which have resulted in fines / prosecutions / injured employees.

There is I fear no hope for some employers, they live in the dark ages and would be right at home in Victorian Britain. I also have one of these, unnecessarily hard work sometimes. Even though you may not win every battle, providing you are still moving the company forward H&S wise, then all good, but if it is a complete dead end, then why did they employ you (or anyone). If of course there is no more moving forward you may be employed but it will eat away at you, so for your sake best move. Perhaps if the company realises it can’t keep H&S people and they all say the same thing, it will learn (perhaps not – I was the 4th H&S person in as many years – I know why).

I note this is not your first thread of this type, ultimately if there are practices that are so dangerous, that cannot or should not be ignored then they have to be reported. The HSE allow anonymous reporting and could you live with yourself if you did nothing and someone was seriously hurt, even if it cost you your job.

Best of Luck

Chris

Yeah, I have walked away without the security of a job to go to - not an esy decision to make, but I decided that staying would have been worse for me personally and  professionally than a gap in my CV - it took a while but eventually I'm back in work (all be it in a temp. post, covering for sickness) but I still maintain I made the right decision to walk ...

I wouldn't worry too much about having a few short employment details on your CV, you can explain it aeay if you try Best of luck however you drcide to play this particular conundrum

P.

Thunderchild,  I have a similar problem here. Office environment and some parts are worse than others, I provided the Group Managers with advice and guidance last month which was tweaked and made acceptable then distributed. I have repeatedly made the point to the managers that I am the advisor, I have no authority or direct responsibility for their staff that is their job ( this is why they are paid loads of money).

Today I was asked by one to do Thermal risk assessments as they did not feel able to complete the HSE chart themselves because of the difficult question about PPE........ I have suggested that they talk/listen to their staff.

TGIF

May I suggest, for those working in extreme heat environments, where work rates and PPE may be contributing to the heat stress risk, that you use a indicator of temperature other than just dry bulb?  A WBGT measurement can be used together with industry standard guidelines to accurately assess "safe" work / rest regimes.

If you are doing your risk assessments (as you stated above) include this and make your recommendation as unnacceptable risk, with the recommendation for a work/rest regime as indicated by your WBGT analysis (taking into account clothing, ppe, work rates etc etc...)

The management then do not have a fall back on to the risk assessment comfort blanket - if they go against their own risk assessment advice, and the employees have a weapon to use to take to the authroties / unions to demonstrate the conditions they are working are not acceptable.

The management can also then see easier, the £ cost of improvement can result more productivity as the work/rest regime (amount of work done) will decrease as the heat risk decreases - sometimes just hiring a large fan blowing in cooler air can reduce the effects of heat significantly.

The chart here is quite useful, but much more detailed advice is available around online if you google:

https://ksi.uconn.edu/prevention/wet-bulb-globe-temperature-monitoring/

https://ksi.uconn.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/1222/2015/03/Work-to-Rest-WBGT.png

Other practical advice especially regarding PPE or respirators would be the use of battery / tubo hoods which blow air into the breathing zone, rather than hot sweaty face masks - double as eye and respiratory protection, though expensive initial outlay, can recoup costs pretty quickly compared to disposable mask types (better protection and no need for face fit test / failures)

Edited by user 30 July 2018 12:14:59(UTC)  | Reason: Linked directly to image instead of webpage - kept orinigal link for ref

Too hot = 30C?

Take it you have never worked in catering.

Simlarly a lot of food manufacturing would cease if such a limit were imposed.

And this advice is being dished out by IOSH