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reeve21886  
#1 Posted : 07 February 2012 17:37:17(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
reeve21886

I discovered this evening that my kids' primary school took two years out of lessons (aged approx 9-11) today to clear snow from the playground using buckets and bits of cardboard. Questions in my mind at the moment: 1. what was the caretaker doing whilst this was going on? 2. where does "kids H&S being paramount" (often used to justify snow-related closures) come into this? 3. liability issues? as parent and also concerned for the school's position if one were to break a leg etc whilst doing the job 4. and finally, shouldn't they be in class? or it this just me? thoughts welcome!
freelance safety  
#2 Posted : 07 February 2012 17:40:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
freelance safety

ROFL……… don’t really know what to say, but thanks for the post!…… Anyone for a risk assessment...?
RayRapp  
#3 Posted : 07 February 2012 17:43:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

I suppose they will be up the school chimneys next! I bet the kids loved it...surely, there a more important things to worry about.
freelance safety  
#4 Posted : 07 February 2012 17:46:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
freelance safety

RayRapp, I was waiting to see the ‘up the chimney’ quote, thanks for not disappointing me - lol!
David H  
#5 Posted : 07 February 2012 19:33:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David H

A bit of physical exercise in the fresh air - team working and valuable lessons learned on the need to shift it if it needs shifting. And yes - I bet the kids enjoyed it All good stuff! cant see anything wrong with this. David
David H  
#6 Posted : 07 February 2012 19:35:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David H

Just as long as this is not a regular activity??
Zimmy  
#7 Posted : 07 February 2012 19:37:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

I can see a few problems here. Child slips and get hurt...School did not make a Risk Assessment, children not trained in Manual Handling.
Graham Bullough  
#8 Posted : 07 February 2012 19:45:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

Reeve Here are some thoughts, right or wrong, regarding your queries: 1. The caretaker might well have been off-duty at the time, having completed a full morning shift which very probably began well before 7am and included re-gritting all the external walkways at the school. In my experience, school caretakers are vital (like good headteachers and good school secretaries), but much of their work tends to be unseen, unrecognised and taken for granted! 2. Most school closures due to snow are probably made because insufficient numbers of their staff are able to get to school by car from wherever they live. However, "the H&S of pupils being paramount" looks/sounds more plausible. 3. What's the actual likelihood of 9-11 year olds falling and breaking their legs while snow clearing? Probably quite low. Adults are probably more at risk. Anyhow, for kids and adults, falling and breaking a wrist or elbow is the more likely outcome. In connection with this, do forum users involved with schools know/care if their caretakers and other site staff have ice grip footwear and suitable warm clothing for treating walkways, often alone, on freezing dark winter mornings?!! Furthermore, how easily can they summon help and from whom if they do fall and suffer incapacitating injury? 4. Perhaps the kids doing the snow clearing got some exercise plus some non-academic education about co-operating/working together - and hopefully were told why they were doing it. Even so, it's worth asking the school why they were doing it. If you do, please could you let us know what answer is given by the school?
firesafety101  
#9 Posted : 07 February 2012 21:47:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Jumping to conclusions - does anyone know if there wasn't a risk assessment? When I was a kid I would have loved to do that, any excuse to get out of the classroom, I bet there was some snowballs thrown as well. Happy days for the kids.
SBH  
#10 Posted : 07 February 2012 22:56:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SBH

At last - let kids be kids. SBH
Ron Hunter  
#11 Posted : 07 February 2012 23:18:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Reeve21886 wrote:
I discovered this evening that my kids' primary school took two years out of lessons !
I hope that bit isn't true. As others state above, there are any number of learning outcomes and "lessons" to be had from such an exercise. In other respects, I've no problem whatsoever with this.
Graham Bullough  
#12 Posted : 07 February 2012 23:59:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

It's a shocking suggestion that the kids might have wasted time throwing snowballs instead of getting on with the business of clearing snow: If they did, surely they needed to learn self-discipline about not being distracted and getting the task completed in reasonable time! However, the above observation is tongue-in-cheek. For those who don't recall it, HSE's Myth of the Month topic in December 2008 at http://www.hse.gov.uk/myth/dec08.htm dealt with the misperception that children aren't allowed to throw snowballs. To expand on this I reckon children should be told/reminded that throwing snowballs at other participants is fine but not at anybody's face or non-participants (including cyclists and motorists) and best not to use hard snowballs made of wet slushy snow. In other words, children should be enabled and encouraged to have fun with snow - and also to combine it with appropriate responsibility!
Zyggy  
#13 Posted : 08 February 2012 07:42:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zyggy

Wearing a number of hats, i.e. a Dad, Granddad, ex Chair of Governors & a safety practitioner for more than 30 years, I think that it is a great idea to involve children in such activities! In my opinion, any "risks" are far outweighed by the advantages of letting kids have some unusual physical activity & I bet that they had great fun into the bargain! Zyggy
SP900308  
#14 Posted : 08 February 2012 07:51:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SP900308

Now, when the School are a bit short in the kitchen, you might have better reason for concern!
JimD  
#15 Posted : 08 February 2012 08:50:51(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
JimD

Good to hear the school wasn't shut because a flake of snow landed. A great way to keep the kids active and solved the problem of PE in snowy conditions for two acedemic years in one session. I'd of loved to of done that when I was a lad. :)
Psycho  
#16 Posted : 08 February 2012 08:52:58(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Psycho

Ah yes modern curriculums brought on by this fine government That’s why I send my children to Private schools they train children to go to university. This is obviously a comprehensive school were they train children for manual labour and factory work
kdrum  
#17 Posted : 08 February 2012 09:01:00(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
kdrum

Bit of a sweeping statement and one I find offensive. My children and myself went to comprehensive school and managed fine with university.
David Bannister  
#18 Posted : 08 February 2012 09:06:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

Cardboard to clear snow? Wrong tools. Much better for the big kids to roll the little ones around and form massive snowballs then push them down the hill. Great exercise for all and still gets the snow cleared. Great lesson in the physics of water/ice, heat conduction, gravity, work/energy. To the OP, I think it is you!
B.Bruce  
#19 Posted : 08 February 2012 09:18:56(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
B.Bruce

I'm hoping psychos statement was tongue in cheek. Absolutely nothing wrong with state schools - there have been many fine scholars and business leaders educated via the state - some of which whent onto university, others went straight into developing very successful business. Back to the subject at hand - I dont see a real problem with this, snowball fights were great.
barnaby  
#20 Posted : 08 February 2012 09:21:03(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

psycho wrote:
- - - Private schools they train children to go to university. - - obviously a comprehensive school were(sic) they train children - -
Interesting use of the word "train"!
Safety Smurf  
#21 Posted : 08 February 2012 09:21:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Safety Smurf

psycho wrote:
Ah yes modern curriculums brought on by this fine government That’s why I send my children to Private schools they train children to go to university. This is obviously a comprehensive school were they train children for manual labour and factory work
Manual labour and factory work a bad thing is it? (there are days I wish I could go back to it. Finish work, go home, stop thinking about it!)
B.Bruce  
#22 Posted : 08 February 2012 09:21:48(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
B.Bruce

...........obviously I must have been educated via the state - given the poor grammar and incorrect spelling in my last post!
Victor Meldrew  
#23 Posted : 08 February 2012 09:46:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Victor Meldrew

Well done the school I say..... and certainly reckon the kids would have enjoyed it and got something out of it....... fresh air, excercise, rosey cheeks, great fun and the school, well in the end safer for all to move around hopefully......
Jane Blunt  
#24 Posted : 08 February 2012 09:49:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jane Blunt

In my primary school (pre 1960) they held an igloo-making competition one snowy day. That was real fun.
JohnW  
#25 Posted : 08 February 2012 09:54:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

B.Bruce wrote:
Absolutely nothing wrong with state schools - there have been many fine scholars and business leaders educated via the state - some of which whent onto university, others went straight into developing very successful business.
C'mon Brucey, no word about the 100's of other pupils employed in lesser-academic/skilled jobs that keep the country working?
B.Bruce  
#26 Posted : 08 February 2012 10:29:36(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
B.Bruce

ehhhhh. im confused - thats exactly what I am saying Johnny! Read all my posts........................state schools provide generally high standards of edcuation, some pupils decide to go to university as a result, others decide to go straight into business. Attending private school doesnt necessarily provide for any higher a standard of education than private schools.
B.Bruce  
#27 Posted : 08 February 2012 10:31:41(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
B.Bruce

...........should have read "............Attending private school doesnt necessarily provide for any higher a standard of education than public schools." Typed in frustration and haste
Ron Hunter  
#28 Posted : 08 February 2012 10:35:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Then again, a scan of the grammar standards on this thread suggests maybe we should spend more time in the classroom.............................! ;-)
B.Bruce  
#29 Posted : 08 February 2012 11:11:56(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
B.Bruce

......back to P1 for me then!
Gerry Knowles  
#30 Posted : 08 February 2012 13:26:26(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Gerry Knowles

How did the people in this thread manage to get from "kids clearing snow" to a debate on the differences between private and state education. Must be the weather or is it Friday afternoon already!!!!!!
Moderator 3  
#31 Posted : 08 February 2012 13:49:33(UTC)
Rank: Moderator
Moderator 3

Gerry Knowles wrote:
How did the people in this thread manage to get from "kids clearing snow" to a debate on the differences between private and state education. Must be the weather or is it Friday afternoon already!!!!!!
And with that observation, please be aware that forum topics that deviate will be locked under FR: 1. Carry on.
bob youel  
#32 Posted : 08 February 2012 14:35:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

The only negative thought that I have is; - afterwards where do the kids get warm and dry and dry their cloths? As in many if not most UK schools the facilities for such things are poor compared to other northern European schools where such activities are a regular thing so drying cloths etc is catered for Other than that negative thought I say let them get on with it noting that the biggest problems in schools that children face is parents driving very badly snow or no snow!
Psycho  
#33 Posted : 08 February 2012 15:18:50(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Psycho

B.Bruce wrote:
I'm hoping psychos statement was tongue in cheek. .
reel them in little fishes ------------------- O< o< o< At my comprehensive school on a very rough estate in the gruff north of England we never shoveled snow we dug the school gardens to provide enough food for the school dinner tables It had its advantages it made you big and strong to fight the bullies, having to wear my brothers old warn out blazer and the hand me down shorts that, where also my brothers trousers but the knees were wholey so they made shorts -- its glum up north at least my kids will go to the a proper university -the university of life and hard knocks, when i have them at least i am not a 3rd generation dole whaller. anyway more snow due :-)
multuminparvo  
#34 Posted : 08 February 2012 21:52:36(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
multuminparvo

I wonder how much snow went in the direction of the teachers? As for levels of education etc. do you understand what school your kids go to - Community, Voluntary Controlled, Voluntary Aided, Foundation, Acadamy, Free School? The control, curriculum and aspirations are politicallky changing towards non-state education. Less young people 'hiding' in universities away from the depressed job market whilst Local Authorities ditch 10's of thousands of LEA staff. Bring back manufacture, skills of head and hand, real apprenterships and the university of life not one of toffs and fags. Come the revolution!
firesafety101  
#35 Posted : 09 February 2012 15:40:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

What about football clubs asking for volunteer to clear snow from the pitch?
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