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bigjohnboy  
#1 Posted : 10 April 2013 16:57:01(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
bigjohnboy

Hi All hopefully you can help me here ? We are a serviced based company and carry out the same type of activity in different custmers premisis, ie service gas fired boiler , change pump, replace filters, etc etc. I have created model risk assessments and given each RA a number. I intended to supply each engineer with this pack of RA's and every time they start a job they should list the various RA numbers that apply to the job, if however the enginer identifies further risks or the job is not straight forward a blank RA should be completed. Any large job would have a full site specific RA carried out before the engineer went to site. How does this sound All our engineer have all the relavent ACS & H&S training Thanks John
A Kurdziel  
#2 Posted : 10 April 2013 17:27:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Don't know if it's right but it sounds very similar to what our inspectors do except we call the form that they fill in if there is something extra a 'Dynamic Risk Assessment' form( I known that the risk assessment is not the form it's just what we call it).
Ron Hunter  
#3 Posted : 10 April 2013 19:45:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

bigjohnboy wrote:
. I intended to supply each engineer with this pack of RA's and every time they start a job they should list the various RA numbers that apply to the jobThanks
Why? and Why?
boblewis  
#4 Posted : 10 April 2013 20:19:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

It is the job issuers task to identify the relevant risk assessments in my view. At each premise the RA is updated for that premise and held there in the premise if there are to be retiurn calls in the future. You are simply using the Generic as the task RA except when there is a change so why not make it specific to that client? Again I say Never record dynamic RAs unless it reveals a permanent change that needs to be incorprated into the Task RA in future.
Ron Hunter  
#5 Posted : 10 April 2013 23:07:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Premises, Bob. Premises. When applied to property, always used as a plural noun. A premise is something completely different.
bigjohnboy  
#6 Posted : 11 April 2013 12:10:52(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
bigjohnboy

Thanks for the input so far, let me supply more details the RA I am talking about are for t duration works 2 hours max in a mixture of domestic and non domestic premises . So to send someone to carry out a risk assessment for each small task would be un sustainable. The reason the engineer needs to put the RA number on the ticket is because they may be other RA that are applicable if other work is identified ie original works is to service a boiler but find the pump requires replacing. Also by having to put the number on the ticket is shows he/ her has read the RA and agree's with it. Thanks
boblewis  
#7 Posted : 11 April 2013 12:52:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

But you are sending an operative who can make each RA premises:-) (Ron) specific!!!! Properly designed templates guide a trained person through the process thus giving a RA that can be signed off for each premises/that task in that premises
BJC  
#8 Posted : 11 April 2013 13:14:26(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

A good RA is pragmatic, simple and effective.
ptaylor14  
#9 Posted : 11 April 2013 14:40:39(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ptaylor14

ron hunter wrote:
Premises, Bob. Premises. When applied to property, always used as a plural noun. A premise is something completely different.
there is no need to be impolite
Ron Hunter  
#10 Posted : 11 April 2013 23:22:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

bigjohnboy wrote:
Thanks for the input so far, let me supply more details the RA I am talking about are for t duration works 2 hours max in a mixture of domestic and non domestic premises . So to send someone to carry out a risk assessment for each small task would be un sustainable. The reason the engineer needs to put the RA number on the ticket is because they may be other RA that are applicable if other work is identified ie original works is to service a boiler but find the pump requires replacing. Also by having to put the number on the ticket is shows he/ her has read the RA and agree's with it. Thanks
Still not convinced what value you're adding here. Seems somewhat bureaucratic and 'tick box'. I'd personally find it difficult to justify. A reasonable outcome is to have the trained and competent workforce come back to management with the new and the unexpected issues. I'd focus on a method that encourages that feedback.
RayRapp  
#11 Posted : 12 April 2013 08:16:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

There are processes to identify hazards which may not have been accounted for or are specific to a particular environment. Call them Dynamic RAs or whatever, moreover they must be meaningful and practical for people to use. Therein lies the problem. Dumb down the process too much and it is worthless and with an overly complex process operatives will either find difficulty completing it or not use it at all. I concur with a previous comment, investing in training your workforce to identify potential hazards and putting in place a system where they can get support if needed is the best option. A prescriptive process for identifying hazards has it's limitations. Furthermore, the process should not be used as a backside covering exercise or transferring the onus to the worker.
andybz  
#12 Posted : 12 April 2013 09:13:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
andybz

This is how understand what is being proposed: * Engineers carry out a number of standard tasks * Risk assessments have been prepared for those standard tasks * Before they start work they are asked to review the appropriate risk assessment to confirm it applies * If the task and hazards are as described on the risk assessment you ask them to confirm that they are applying the specified controls and to make a record * If the task or hazards are different, you ask them to complete a job specific risk assessment All sounds very reasonable to me provided engineers are provided with suitable training and support (which you covered in the original post). Also, seems pretty pragmatic approach, using standard assessments to reduce workload where possible whilst keeping flexibility to address particular scenarios. The only potential issue would be if the number of standard jobs turns out to be small, which would mean the engineers were having to develop job specific assessments more often than not. References to 'dynamic risk assessments' are completely spurious here, in my opinion. There is nothing dynamic about the situation you describe, just that circumstances will vary from place to place.
andybz  
#13 Posted : 12 April 2013 09:15:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
andybz

This is how understand what is being proposed: * Engineers carry out a number of standard tasks * Risk assessments have been prepared for those standard tasks * Before they start work they are asked to review the appropriate risk assessment to confirm it applies * If the task and hazards are as described on the risk assessment you ask them to confirm that they are applying the specified controls and to make a record * If the task or hazards are different, you ask them to complete a job specific risk assessment All sounds very reasonable to me provided engineers are provided with suitable training and support (which you covered in the original post). Also, seems pretty pragmatic approach, using standard assessments to reduce workload where possible whilst keeping flexibility to address particular scenarios. The only potential issue would be if the number of standard jobs turns out to be small, which would mean the engineers were having to develop job specific assessments more often than not. References to 'dynamic risk assessments' are completely spurious here, in my opinion. There is nothing dynamic about the situation you describe, just that circumstances will vary from place to place.
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