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On 20 March, there will be a partial eclipse of the sun. In the south it will be approx. 80-85% covered, and in northern England about 90%. It will go very dark! The partial eclipse starts at around 7.40am, with peak eclipse at 9.45am, ending at 11.50am
Apart from the eclipse of 11 August 1999, this is likely to be one of the best eclipses in the UK in our lifetimes.
With every eclipse there are usually many who suffer eye problems by looking at the sun. As this one is happening in working hours I am concerned that people will naturally want to look at the sun.
What advice or ideas are other organisations using to prevent these eye injuries at work?
Thanks
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Rank: Super forum user
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None whatsoever.
I do not consider advising members of staff about the dangers of looking directly at the sun during an eclipse or any other time to be part of the role of an H&S advisor unless my company directly employed people to stare at the sky.
regards
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I suppose if you are to allow employees outside to have a look at the eclipse then you may want to give some guidance about how to avoid looking directly into the sun.
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And while their out there you could give them some training in how to cross the road.
I can think of only one scenario when advice such as this would be neccessary and it involves schoolchildren.
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Rank: Super forum user
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If you think it necessary to cover your tail, advise employees not to look directly at the sun but it can be best viewed by pinhole camera (a sheet of cardboard with a small hole in it to project the image onto a suitable surface).
LB
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Is looking at the sun a work activity?
Do you hold your employees hand when crossing the road...
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I won't be making any provision for eye injuries as a result of this event, looking forward to seeing it though!
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I agree, of course, that there is no legal reason for offering any advice for this kind of activity.
Surely though there is no harm, as leadbelly and FS101 helpfully do, in giving some good advice. This must be part of the moral duty of H&S practitioners and lets face it, any company will be pleased not to lose half their workforce with temporary blindness.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Urlrik wrote:I agree, of course, that there is no legal reason for offering any advice for this kind of activity.
Surely though there is no harm, as leadbelly and FS101 helpfully do, in giving some good advice. This must be part of the moral duty of H&S practitioners and lets face it, any company will be pleased not to lose half their workforce with temporary blindness.
I am afraid I disagree.
I would consider many (if not most) workers would feel patronised to be given such advice from their employer.
I do not consider it my moral duty to state the obvious to adults. If you do then where do you draw the line ??
As I mentioned previously the only relevant scenario I can see would involve children and an associated duty of care.
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Rank: Forum user
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Urlrik wrote:I agree, of course, that there is no legal reason for offering any advice for this kind of activity.
Surely though there is no harm, as leadbelly and FS101 helpfully do, in giving some good advice. This must be part of the moral duty of H&S practitioners and lets face it, any company will be pleased not to lose half their workforce with temporary blindness.
There is no harm in offering advice for lots of none-work related activities, however I am preoccupied enough protecting our guys with the work related activities, without pursuing advising staff on basic life-skills such as not staring into the sun.
As for moral duty to provide advice for this? really?
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paulw71 wrote:Urlrik wrote:I agree, of course, that there is no legal reason for offering any advice for this kind of activity.
Surely though there is no harm, as leadbelly and FS101 helpfully do, in giving some good advice. This must be part of the moral duty of H&S practitioners and lets face it, any company will be pleased not to lose half their workforce with temporary blindness.
I am afraid I disagree.
I would consider many (if not most) workers would feel patronised to be given such advice from their employer.
I do not consider it my moral duty to state the obvious to adults. If you do then where do you draw the line ??
As I mentioned previously the only relevant scenario I can see would involve children and an associated duty of care.
Maybe that's a cultural thing then. I know where I work that it would be taken as helpful advice and not patronizing, I guess a lot depends how it was delivered.
To me there is a difference between how something like this would be delivered against something like the duty of care scenario where it is much more about compliance. I would hate to think that my role was only about ensuring the legal side of things.
In my experience adults can do some pretty stupid things and if a quick reminder stopped that then surely that has to be a good thing.
Not really a biggy anyway, as I say different work cultures require different handling.
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AlanD76 wrote:Urlrik wrote:I agree, of course, that there is no legal reason for offering any advice for this kind of activity.
Surely though there is no harm, as leadbelly and FS101 helpfully do, in giving some good advice. This must be part of the moral duty of H&S practitioners and lets face it, any company will be pleased not to lose half their workforce with temporary blindness.
There is no harm in offering advice for lots of none-work related activities, however I am preoccupied enough protecting our guys with the work related activities, without pursuing advising staff on basic life-skills such as not staring into the sun.
As for moral duty to provide advice for this? really?
Yes I would say moral, if I know something that someone else may not or may not think about in the moment then I would say I had a moral duty to mention it.
Every time there is an eclipse there are hundreds of adults who damage their eyes looking straight at it, if I can prevent even one of them I think I should. For me H&S is much more about the relational, caring for people side of things, and I accept I am lucky to be working somewhere that shares that kind of ethos across its staff.
Totally accept I am probably in the minority.
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Rank: Super forum user
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What if?
If it was the middle of June and the sun very strong and your workers were going outside would you advise them to cover up or apply sun screen?
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paulw71 wrote:Urlrik wrote:I agree, of course, that there is no legal reason for offering any advice for this kind of activity.
Surely though there is no harm, as leadbelly and FS101 helpfully do, in giving some good advice. This must be part of the moral duty of H&S practitioners and lets face it, any company will be pleased not to lose half their workforce with temporary blindness.
I am afraid I disagree.
I would consider many (if not most) workers would feel patronised to be given such advice from their employer.
I do not consider it my moral duty to state the obvious to adults. If you do then where do you draw the line ??
As I mentioned previously the only relevant scenario I can see would involve children and an associated duty of care.
I couldn't agree more
I work my socks off trying to get staff on board and taking safety seriously. using common sense and non patronising messages is the key, or else I would be considered an elf & safety freak and totally ignored.
Dont forget conkers season starts around September, so start getting your messages ready now
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Rank: Super forum user 
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kevinh1974uk - a good question and one that shows you have thought about possible consequences of things which are outside of your immediate control but which will happen during working hours.
Everyone is going to want to have a look at the eclipse - all our guys went out last time and we provided safety information and, where possible, welding glass to see it through. Yes, there is no legal obligation to do so but your willingness to go above and beyond what is required by law is commendable.
I attach a link to the information page from National Geographic which gives advice on looking at a Solar Eclipse, perhaps you can just post information on the notice boards or leave copies about so that the information is available for anyone who wants it.
http://news.nationalgeog...ewing-science-sun-space/
This is an occurrence that happens very rarely and, therefore, I think it is perfectly reasonable to assume that not everyone is fully clued up on what to do and therefore, information is a really good idea.
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What interesting responses. Some people caring for their staff others leaving it to their common sense. My take from this is that the whole Culture (capital C) of a sector drives not only the employees view but also the H&S person's views.
Some care for their staff as a whole, others seem not to want to be seen as hand holding. It's a matter of who you're speaking to and how it's being said.
I'll be telling my people about the eclipse, because it's fascinating and I want engaged people, not drudges just doing the job. But that's a Cultural thing in my sector. Along with this I will say ‘don’t look directly at the sun’ it will not be seen as condescending, it’s the way our people are.
I guess I’m with Ulrik here, I tell my people not to leave their homes with dish washers and washing machines running because a fire fighter friend tells me they cause a lot of fire. It’s looking after people, it’s what I do if they don't like it, it's their problem.
Graham
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I'm with Graham - interesting clash in viewpoints from H&S practitioners and can see both points of view. I know which H&S person I'd prefer to be working with however based on the responses. I wouldn't expect an hour long lecture into the do's and don'ts of viewing a solar eclipse safely but I'd appreciate the company's friendly reminder not to stare at the sun as a simple aside - I certainly wouldnt see it as patronising but maybe that say's more about me than the advice being offered?
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OMG - next there'll be a SSOW for using the loo.
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I just sent an email to our staff about the eclipse, sent the link for safety and advised them about taking an early tea break or making up the hours if they want to watch it.
I think it will be well received that we are both allowing it and providing safety information so they can do this safely. I don't think anyone will see it as patronising, they're at work in work time so why wouldn't we?
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Victor Meldrew wrote:OMG - next there'll be a SSOW for using the loo.
Or getting out of your car
Sorry! - could not resist ;-)
- private joke between me & victor
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I am with Hilary and others who aim to offer sensible advice. Clearly some of us are able to engage with our work colleagues without fear, having developed a good relationship. In winter a good safety bod will remind staff about the dangers of ice so why not the sun?
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kevinh1974uk wrote:What advice or ideas are other organisations using to prevent these eye injuries at work?
A friday reply - perhaps you could tell them to look only at night (or go to a part of the world where the eclipse is occuring during the hours of darkness)
I'll get my coat
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So just like some employers remind their staff about x-mas lights or icy conditions, why not offer advice about solar eclipse.
So they are obliged to take the advice, but whats wrong with showing a little concern for others?
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Coming in late on this one.
I can remember the total Eclipse which took place in 1999
Working in a University we put out an email to all students and staff referring them to the information that had been put out by what is now the HPA on their website.
Surprisingly we then got a complaint from the TU’s asking why we had not put out written information to staff.
Seems you are dammed if you do and dammed if you don’t.
Have to say it was all I a bit of an anti-climax on the day as there was a lot of cloud cover.
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I must admit, living in Scotland, it's hard not to stare at the sun it is such a novelty to see in the sky :-)
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paulw71 wrote:None whatsoever.
I do not consider advising members of staff about the dangers of looking directly at the sun during an eclipse or any other time to be part of the role of an H&S advisor unless my company directly employed people to stare at the sky.
regards
Consider a scenario where you employ a welder who then uses their mask (a piece of personal protective equipment) to attempt to view the eclipse. Do we not have a duty to advise against the misuse of PPE under the Regulation 9 (1) (b) of the PPE at Work Regs?
I don't know the answer, but I'm pretty sure it's not as clear cut as you seem to think, Paul.
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Yossarian wrote:paulw71 wrote:None whatsoever.
I do not consider advising members of staff about the dangers of looking directly at the sun during an eclipse or any other time to be part of the role of an H&S advisor unless my company directly employed people to stare at the sky.
regards
Consider a scenario where you employ a welder who then uses their mask (a piece of personal protective equipment) to attempt to view the eclipse. Do we not have a duty to advise against the misuse of PPE under the Regulation 9 (1) (b) of the PPE at Work Regs?
I don't know the answer, but I'm pretty sure it's not as clear cut as you seem to think, Paul.
So are you suggesting that an employee viewing an eclipse through a welding mask of his own volition should have been advised against such an act by the H&S advisor.
What about an employee attempting to walk down a flight of stairs in the dark whilst wearing a welding mask. Should said H&S bod advise against such an eventuality.
What about this welder attempting to drink a cup of tea out of his hard hat or storing nails in his safety boots. All misuses of PPE that I have never untill now felt the need to make people aware of.
Better get to work considering some more one in a million scenarios.
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paulw71 wrote:So are you suggesting that an employee viewing an eclipse through a welding mask of his own volition should have been advised against such an act by the H&S advisor.
What about an employee attempting to walk down a flight of stairs in the dark whilst wearing a welding mask. Should said H&S bod advise against such an eventuality.
What about this welder attempting to drink a cup of tea out of his hard hat or storing nails in his safety boots. All misuses of PPE that I have never untill now felt the need to make people aware of.
Better get to work considering some more one in a million scenarios.
But surely it is your moral duty to provide advice to this employee on these none-work related activities and any others you may think of?
Have a great weekend everyone!
Al
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paulw71 wrote:So are you suggesting that an employee viewing an eclipse through a welding mask of his own volition should have been advised against such an act by the H&S advisor...
No, the Regs do that, see 10 (1):
Quote:Every employer shall take all reasonable steps to ensure that any personal protective equipment provided to his employees by virtue of regulation 4(1) is properly used.
By identifying this potential hazard, we can no longer defend our inaction on the grounds of unforseeability.
Again, I'm not convinced by the argument myself, but am pushing it to it's logical conclusion. Have a good weekend.
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Victor Meldrew wrote:OMG - next there'll be a SSOW for using the loo.
Victor, nice to see you adding some sanity to the forum.
I'm a occupational health and safety practitioner and the Sun has nothing to do with work. Ye Gods most people think we are crackers and this thread confirms it.
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walker wrote:Victor Meldrew wrote:OMG - next there'll be a SSOW for using the loo.
Or getting out of your car
Sorry! - could not resist ;-)
- private joke between me & victor
Nice one mate - then there's the dangers of windy days, wet days, opening the front door, getting out of bed........ I don't believe it 😉
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RayRapp wrote:Victor Meldrew wrote:OMG - next there'll be a SSOW for using the loo.
Victor, nice to see you adding some sanity to the forum.
I'm a occupational health and safety practitioner and the Sun has nothing to do with work. Ye Gods most people think we are crackers and this thread confirms it.
You're not kidding Ray....... gave me a hoot before I went for a game of golf on this glorious sunny day - had a flippin' good laugh with the lads on a four ball about the topic.......they all know why I retired now.
Strange really, I was always led to believe that looking at the sun was at best uncomfortable and at worst quite painful.... bit like sticking your head in the oven. I await the post, perhaps next winter now, on snow blindness 😉
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It won't go very dark.
It will go sorta dusky....
Anyone looking directly at the sun can, safely, be assumed to be either bonkers, conkers or some other sort of 'onkers.
In which case I suggest contacting a *mental* health practitioner. But then, as with all health and safety topics, a mental health expert should always be at hand...
MUCH more interesting is that a supermoon, equinox and eclipse are falling together...
Now, back to the current insanity......
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In answer to FS101 at #13 we have sunblock available for folk working outside - is it reasonably practicable to provide? But we do live in an area where we have a party every time the sun comes out...
As an aside, I like the proportionate responses!
http://www.solareclipse2....uk/viewing-the-eclipse/
Like the sunblock in my example above, you could make this information available to your guys. When the smokers head off for a ciggy, your non-smokers can have a look at the eclipse.
At the last eclipse, the light cloud cover and a pair of sunglasses did the trick. It was a little cold too due to sun being shielded, so you might want to get the guys to put a jacket on.
I'm inferring from some of the posts above that H&S stops at the gates, and why bother worrying about folk once they're out the gate. Yeah, go home and do what you like, we only have to worry about not injuring people while they're at work. Backsides coverd, job done. In reality I think you'll find an injury received at home will keep folk off work just as we'll as an injury received at work - but on the plus side, at least no RIDDOR report.
I'm with Ulrik and Hilary and keeping it proportionate. Wouldn't expect 80 pages of advice...
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The only advice I'll be giving is take your coat if you're going outside to watch it. Nearly froze my prickly pears off in 1999
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IMHO then if you are giving any advice at all you should give full advice, otherwise don't give any advice at all.
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You need to lighten up FS101
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Ha ha Nick, that's a funny post, telling me to lighten up when the sky is about to go dark lol
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If you are going to lighten up FS101, please can you provide a suitable notice period so I can warn my colleagues to take the necessary precautions - Thanks
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Nice one mssy.
As they say? You can take the man out of fire safety but you can never take fire safety out of the man lol
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