Hi, This has come from my post regarding speaking evidence in court but differs as it is focussed on the sleeping risk in halls of residence at university.

We are asked for written proof that our daughter will safely react to hearing the fire alarm while asleep in her bedroom, or would she panic and not react correctly.

This information has been required by the University H&S department.

On our side we have Me, Social Worker and her family who all know her very well.

If we cannot provide the proof they want they may not allow her to stay in the Halls of residence and would have to commute on a daily basis, (1 hour or more each way), the room they have pencilled in is right next to the main entrance and she has demonstrated she can exit from that room successfully.

One of her issues is High Anxiety and she is Selective Mute.

Thanks.

Why not suggest during the summer recess (no other students present) a trial sleep over at the halls?

This would be your daughter in the room and at some stage the university staff would trigger the alarm so that they can see her reaction. You will however have to accept that she would need to be on her own - no family or friends in attendance (or at the end of a phone/tablet/laptop providing prompts).

Satisfactory written proof of behaviour is going to be impossible to provide in an unbiased manner.

What ^^he said^^

I hate to say it but this looks like the educational facility throwing another excuse your way. Sorry to put it that way but its how it seems.

Yes, defo get the MP and the papers involved!

Hi Messey, thanks.  Their issue comes from the Anxiety (a phobia of communicating) which we continually tell them is about communicating with strangers.  Not that she 'falls apart' when something needs to be done right away.  She fully understands why evacuation is important having me as her dad and practice at some hotels we have stayed in, fire alarm operating during the night.

Some good news, The Cheshire County FRS officer called me this morning and we had a very good chat.  He told me he had been into the Uni and done training with the staff about evacuation and that includes Porters and Security ensuring everyone is evacuating.  We had a Teams meeting yesterday with the college and I asked about does anyone do a Sweep and they told me they don't have the staff so Annie has to do it herself.

The fire officer will be visiting the Uni to inform the staff their responsibilities.  Hopefully that should bring an end to this issue.

Your comment about Reasonable Adjustments is interesting in the way you say if I come up with the reasonable adjustments they have to do them.  Where can I find that please Messey.

Part of the degree course is presentations to her class and then a Mock Court hearing where she will be questioned by Barristers (members of staff) and she will be expected to speak.  (The degree includes Forensic Sciences). They say that has to be done otherwise she will fail her degree.

The Uni apparently are their own exam moderators but say they cannot change this.  I have searched everywhere  to find a reasonable adjustment which she can use instead of talking.  Annie has told us it is her mission to speak during the course because she does not want to fail the course.  I am aware a Judge can allow adjustments in Court but unable to speak to anyone about this.  

The largest minefield I have come across up to now.

Thanks everyone.

Originally Posted by: firesafety101

The Uni apparently are their own exam moderators but say they cannot change this.  I have searched everywhere  to find a reasonable adjustment which she can use instead of talking.  Annie has told us it is her mission to speak during the course because she does not want to fail the course.  I am aware a Judge can allow adjustments in Court but unable to speak to anyone about this.  

The largest minefield I have come across up to now.

Thanks everyone.

Having a none visible disability myself, a son with similar issues, and now a wheal chair bound father i feel your pain. Not sure if it would be allowed in court, but i was watching a programme on Rob Burrows (RIP) and it got me thinking. Is there some computer software out there that would change typed text into voice? Not sure if acceptable in court but wort a try.

Originally Posted by: chris42

Surely the defendant’s legal representative could ask all their questions in writing if necessary, beforehand based on the evidence provided, and a response also made in writing. This could all just be read out in court for the judge and jury etc, by anyone.

What about questions that may arise from trial testimony delivered by others, post evidential disclosure?

The greatest challenge with the written word is having it deliver the intended message to all recipients where the mere activity of reading can significantly alter the message - the tone, tempo, intuation of the speaker altering what we hear or more correctly perceive we hear.

It is common on these forums with short form writing people take offence, read the post other than written, get the wrong message due to acronyms and jargon or head of at a tangent. How often do we have to seek clarification of the posed question or responses thereto?

The jury engage with the performance that is the trial - they dont currently sit reading reams of documents to form their decision instead being provided a trail of evidence by the barristers to support either the case for the prosecution or the case for the defence.

Of course it is perhaps not an ideal situation, but as I say if they were a witness to a murder. Any further questions or clarification of what was previously presented, would require the expert witness to be recalled to the courtroom any way so again the questions could be put to them and answers written down and read out by another person.

The expert witness has no axe to grind one way or another and their testimony will be bland anyway, compared to that of the accused etc. I didn’t suggest everyone reads reems of paper, though I would expect the lawyers to do so beforehand to prepare. Everything could be read out.

It appears these people agree that this sort of thing can be done

https://www.communicourt.co.uk/news/understanding-selective-mutism-adapting-legal-proceedings/#:~:text=During%20conferences%2C%20a%20person%20with,verbally%20or%20in%20written%20form).

Normally where there is a will to make things work, there is a way.

I wish them the best.

Chris

Further to my earlier post of 16/7 - This is a copy of a DM I sent to FS 101 at that time in relation to the legal side of PEEPs (in my own opinion). The advice in this reply should not be seen as full legal advice, but just a pointer to help FS101 to convince the Responsible Person they need to comply with the relevant legislation 

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Since 2010 when the DDA was replaced by the Equality Act, the EA has stated that it is unlawful to discriminate in access to goods, facilities, services, and managing property. Businesses are also required to make ‘reasonable adjustments’ to their policies and/or physical aspects of their premises, to avoid discrimination.

The Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) is advising disabled residents in general needs accommodation [NOTE 1 below] that the failure to provide auxiliary aids may be seen by a judge as breaching the service provision aspects of Part 4 of the Equality Act 2010. 

The 2024 Vento scale [NOTE 2 below] for compensation in such cases for the higher band is between £35,200 to £58,700 for the most severe instances.where the discrimination is continued and causes stress. 

Implementing a PEEP and providing a suitable system to help the person requiring assistance will, in many cases, be more cost-effective than paying compensation claims.

The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 (Fire Safety Order) reached the statue books in 2006. The legal requirements of the Fire Safety Order applies equally to disabled and non-disabled people and includes general needs accommodation. However, means of escape for disabled people is rarely implemented or enforced in general needs accommodation.

The Fire Safety Order is criminal law, with a personal responsibility for compliance on the defined ‘Responsible Person’ within an organisation. 

Articles 14 and 15 state that there is a legal duty to [ensure that]:

‘in the event of danger, it must be possible for persons to evacuate the premises as quickly as and safely as possible’ and ‘establish and, where necessary, give effect to appropriate procedures, including safety drills, to be followed in the event of serious and imminent danger to relevant persons’ and ‘nominate a sufficient number of competent persons to implement those procedures in so far as to the evacuation of relevant persons from the premises.’

The government’s guidance on means for escape for disabled people backs up the legal position by stating in section 1.1 (legal overview) that:

‘Under current fire safety legislation, it is the responsibility of the person(s) having responsibility for the building to provide a fire safety risk assessment that includes an emergency evacuation plan for all people likely to be in the premises, including disabled people, and how that plan will be implemented. Such an evacuation plan should not rely upon the intervention of the Fire and Rescue Service to make it work.’

There is no legal requirement under the Fire Safety Order for assistance to be provided by an employee, just that the person must be competent and trained. It is, therefore, perfectly acceptable to include family, friends, and neighbours in a PEEP.

If employees are involved in an evacuation, employers must take care that they are not putting the employee in increased danger, as this will breach the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 and the Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 1999.

EXPLANATORY NOTES: 

NOTE 1 General needs tenants are those who are non-vulnerable and able to live independently without any special housing or support requirements.

NOTE 2 Vento bands are legal guidelines used to calculate compensation for emotional distress and psychiatric injuries in employment-related cases, such as discrimination and whistleblowing. These bands provide a structured framework for determining the amount of compensation based on the severity of the case.

Sources;

FPA website article dated March 2022 ‘BUILDING EVACUATION STRATEGIES FOR DISABLED PEOPLE’

Article on Davison Morris website dated April 2024 ‘Increase in Vento Bands 2024’