Posted By andymak
Just to outline where I am coming from, I have been seeking work since January, I have had my CV professionally reviewed, I have been job matched into several selection processes, I have been told my knowledge and passion for H&S is what employers want, I have been told I interview well. I have now applied for over 150 jobs.....

This is not a winge about my situaton as not working has given me the wonderful opportunity to spend six months seeing my baby daughter start to crawl, stand, walk, and talk, all of which I would have missed being at work, yes money is tight etc, etc.

...... The one consistant factor that has been fed back by employers, and agencies is that having the certificate is not enough in the current job market as employers are now looking at diploma candidates whether they need them or not. I mean the choice is obvious, a diploma candidate will not look to the employer to be put through the qualification, and if the job is advertised as needing a cert, salaried at the kind of cert level wage and they get a diploma candidate that's loads of ££££'s the employer has saved.

As I say this is not a winge just an observation, So please discuss the motion that the certificate is redundant when seeking work at the moment.

I am most interested in your comments.

Posted By Eliza Flutterby
Hi Andy,

I don't think it's redundant. The job market is rubbish just now, but that doesn't mean the Cert has lost its value.

I'm struggling to find a position too, but everyone in a similar situation to ourselves is struggling!

I worked my backside off to pass the Cert, fighting through shift work, RSI and a cancer scare, so to hear that it may be seen as redundant makes me a bit miffed to be honest!!

The right job will come for you, me and others who are going through the same. We just need to get our heads down,and stop running down our qualification.

CMIOSH wasn't built in a day!!!!

Cheers!

Eliza :-)

Posted By D H
Andy - good for you on seeing the positive side of unemployment. You are lucky seeing the development of your daughter - and good luck to the future.

Interesting suggestion about the GC. If you look at some of the posts on this forum, there are CMIOSH people struggling to be located.

IMHO - A lot of it is down to the way the UK industrial world is going (and being allowed to go) - heavy industry is all but gone now. The mass employers is almost a thing of the past and a lot of companies have very experienced people in their midst whom they know and trust, and promote from within.

The experience bit is the key in my eyes. I would rather trust a job to a guy that has been doing the job for years, with no qualifications, than a graduate fresh from Uni.I have witnessed some of these people - all well and good in theory - different in practice.

So anyone thinking of going for the GC - get in there. But please be aware that there are a lot of experienced people out there.
Please do not expect the doors to open quickly. But try and use the knowledge to gather experience to help you on the journey (I Know - how do we get the experience without the job).

Stay with it people - with a booming economy there is great demand.
However, a lot of companies have now put their own people in place and I would not expect that to change much even when the economy picks up.
Certification - plus experience - plus good interview skills - plus a good word from networking?

Andy - if you wish to talk off forum - drop me a line.

Dave

Posted By STEPHEN81
Hi Andy,

I do not think it's redundant at all.
I got a new job in January this year, I've the Cert & Env Dip, but job stated at least the Cert.

Also, it was accepted for allowing me on to a Masters Course.

Employers, imho, still recognise the Cert.

Good luck in your hunting mate.
Keep trying.

Posted By GaryC40
I started in my role in compliance / safety / environmental management with no relevant formal qual 4 years ago. At that time i had good admin and practical experience but no 'paper' to back it up.I sat the GC and realised that i had lots of gaps to fill in my knowledge. Too many people think practical experience alone is enough, well its not imo. Quals like GC / Dip / Pgc and so on blended with experience is key.

If is wasn't for IOSH MS and GC i wouldn't have realised that i had so much more to learn. PGc just completed and still i think i'm a novice!

Good luck on your journey!

Posted By Garry Mcglaid
Yes.

Well thats what i believe anyways.

All sorts of reasons to do so, but so many small business, local authorities, and so forth send employees on the NGC just to tick a box.

And with nothing more than personal experience to draw on, they dont really want to be there.

As a potential employer, i look for work experience and / or diploma.

The NGC is a distant, way distant, 3rd

Posted By Nick Higginson
Hi Andy

The key thing here is that the NGC is really aimed at managers/supervisors - not health & safety practitioners.

Employers asking in the past for NGC as a basis for a health & safety post has been more down to their lack of knowledge really.

Nick

Posted By Lisa Royle
I'm an Aussie. We came back to UK for xmas and stayed on for a while.
Hubby's only qual is GC, but plenty of experience back in Oz. He got a contract job at power station. We're back off home when it's complete.
No cert is not redundant if you have experience also.

Posted By Franky
Employers I believe are now looking more at CMIOSH / MIOSH by examination which I presume to be the NEBOSH Diploma rather the NVQ Level 4 route.

I'm not 100% sure but isn't the NEBOSH Diploma more of a level 6 qualification?

It may be prudent for NEBOSH Certificate holders to take the NEBOSH Diploma challenge if they wish to take up a full time Health and Safety career then get as much experiance as possible over say three or four different disciplines say: Construction, Manufacturing, M&E or Facilities Management rather than only gaining experience in one company.

Armed with the main Diploma qualification coupled with CMIOSH membership and gaining the afore said experience one should not go far wrong into securing the lucrative position one has been striving for. It all takes time, don't run before you can walk, it's hard at first and one never stops learning.

Regards

Franky

Posted By Alexander Falconer
To be honest I am surprised at the variation in the responses, especially those who are claiming that employers are looking at those who have Nebosh Diploma/CMIOSH rather than those at NGC/Tech IOSH level.

I will have to disagree, the NGC whilst is a very good qualification in its own right and as someone kindly pointed out is a qualification aimed at Supervisors/Managers, please do not let this hinder you in applying for HSE positions.

What I have found to help, when job hunting, even in these difficult times, is to look at what is going to make you stand out from the rest. Its all very well and fine, highlighting what you can do on your cv, the majority of HSE roles are of similar nature, and any prospective employer wants to know what else you can bring to the table. What achievements/benefits have your previous employers gained as a result of you being in your previous posts? Look at those that have tangiable/cost benefits, ie reduced accidents & incidents by x% year on, reduced energy savings by x% or ££ over x years, received RoSPA Safety Awards, implemented ISO 14001, etc, etc

Make yourself stand out as being the best of the bunch, and this will go a long way to helping you get your foot in the door, be prepared at interviews to back yourself up what you claim. No use in saying you implemented ISO 14001 when you only audited the system, or even wrote one procedure, or claim you achieved a RoSPA safety award when it was your H&S Manager who compiled the data.

Speaking from my own experiences, it is possible to apply and obtain Diploma required posts, with only a NGC, but have other qualities that befit such a post ie in my case 15+ years in QHSE, backed up with additional qualifications (ie Eng Degree, Env Diploma, Management Quals, etc)Sometimes employers will offer to provide the Diploma training as part of the package.

Franky

You queried NVQ Level 4 and the Nebosh Diploma Level 6, they are recognised at the same level

see http://www.qca.org.uk/li.../qca-06-2298-nqf-web.pdf

The national qualifications framework previously was 5 levels, the revised one (2006) is now 8, and the pdf link will show exactly where they sit. It is even more confusing up here as the Scottish Qualifications Framework is 12 levels and SVQ level 4 sits at level 8 and not at level 6.

Have a nice day

Posted By andymak
Pre-crunch I was seeing H&S jobs advertised at £25-35K only needing the Nebosh Cert (in fact I was in one) Jobs requiring the diploma generally were at the £30-45K mark.

I recently applied for a role salaried at £22k and advertised as needing a Nebosh qualification or sdimilar. I was told by the agency the employer was only taking diploma candidates.

How the world has changed!

Posted By Swis

"no job = no income to them."

The above applies to all, good or bad. This has been discussed in the following thread;

http://www.iosh.co.uk/in...um=2&thread=45223&page=1

The real problem has been stated above. We are going through a lingering period at the moment and a lot of highly qualified people have been made redundant who are willing to secure a role even at less wages. So the employers have more options.

Posted By ITK
Andy, I tend to agree with all you have said. I was in the same position after passing the certificate a few years ago.

Two friends of mine passed the certificate with distinction and could not land an interview let alone a job. They have since changed careers.

Remember the certificate is a qualification aimed at managers supervisors and safety reps not normally full time H&S officers who should be looking at a diploma level qualification.

The job market is so competative these days I recently applied for a job, with CMIOSH and didnt even get an interview. Thankfully I am already employed in H&S and am well renumerated.

Keep plugging away something will turn up.

ITK.

Posted By Malcolm R Saunders
Just to say I had a similar situation some years ago oh yes times were better. Went to night school got my GC was given dual job at company I worked for and moved on to a full time position with another company. All this at a mature age.So dont give up I didnt it took some time but got there im sure you will do the same.
just keep looking and pestering no matter how feed up you get.

Good luck

Malcolm

Posted By andymak
Hey as Aerosmith say life's a journey not a destination!

Give me a chance to upskill, or do the dip and I will happily do so....

Posted By CFT
Sorry Toe, that one went right over my head. Can you explain please?

CFT

Posted By Alexander Falconer
Toe

Can you care to explain your comments?

This statement is akin to any qualification gained more than 5 years ago becoming redundant!

What hope for us all if our degrees, certificates, diplomas, etc were no longer recognised by the issuing authorities.

Get a grip...........!

Posted By Swis
I hope this rule does apply to the registery office - I was thinking to get a copy of my birth certificate. I'm well over 5. (or have I never been born in their records)....A time to check


Toe,

Lots of questions to answer, where've you gone? You haven't gone redundant yourself, have you?

P.S. Plz excuse me for asking. How old are you?

Posted By Alexander Falconer
Bereznikov

I am guessing that you state my response is one you claim to be OTT.

I know perfectly well what Toe could be trying to state, hence why (like other responses) he is given the opportunity to clarify his actual statement.

No response so far?

Sometimes I despair at the standard of responses, and wonder why H&S is often ridiculed....!

Posted By naveen duggal
Hi,
Times have changed , Education, Degrees, professionals in whatever specialisation one may do or has done, there is definitely some room for improvements & enhancement. That does not give us the right to dicard or disrespect the previous developments in the industry. It is always have been a competitive job market, depending upon the scale of countries, industries, IT, Oil& Petroleum industries or manufacturing industries developed. There has been a supply & demand of expertise in every field and there has always been an uptrend..or now it is the downtrend....So, better prepare for the future, accept the situations... as the market is down . with many jobless, especially in HSE Best wishes,