Posted By John D Crosby Greg I have used these successfully in schools but it must be remembered that the doors cannot be held back all the time by these devices as they can cause the fire door to twist and hence on closing no seal is made to prevent the heat/smoke from travelling. If you want to have the doors open for short periods then these are a good alternative to the magnetic version and somewhat cheaper John C

Posted By Ken Taylor There are concerns about these among the fire safety profession on such matters as proximity of sounders, effectiveness of fitting, protrusion and vulnerability to damage, battery life, etc. You could have a look at old postings on the FireNet Forum (http://www.globalcrisiscenter.com/BBSFire/index.php) or try asking your question again there.

Posted By Ian Mycroft We have used these successfully in certain areas. The type that we have will respond to any continuous sound above 65db that lasts for longer than 12 seconds, so they don't release if someone talks very loud. They also fail to safety if the battery power is low, i.e. they release the door. There does have to be some control checks in place though, for example, they should not be left open for long periods like overnight. They do stop people using the fire extingushers to wedge doors open though and that has the added advantage of reducing the amount memos that I have to send, which in turn reduces the amount of fuel in manager's in trays

Posted By Bryn Maidment Graham The type you mention are made by most of the closer/alarm companies - Briton, Dorma, Yale, Stanley etc. In my hospital they are known by Estates as Arrow electromagnetic door closers, presumably because a company called Arrow makes them!. They are reasonably reliable - the only problems I encounter are where people have forced them further back than their normal/set position This exerts extra pressure on the hydraulic seals which then break down over time and allow oil to leak out. The doors then tend to 'creep' shut. They are approx £700 per door to fit. As regards the DorGard holders, I've had these fitted in schools and colleges and in this hospital with no problems at all. A routine annual battery change is required for all units so it's done en masse. As for twisting doors, I'm not so sure. I've never seen evidence of this and if true this would also affect any other closer/holder that is not mounted on the middle edge of a door. There are limitations of course , but on the whole they've been a very cheap and beneficial addition to this Trust's fire prevention strategy and will continue to be used in certain applications.

Posted By Greg Burgess Everyone, I have been out of the office for a while so have only just picked up the responses the thread I posted. Thanks to everyone who either sent me a reply directly or postsed a response on the site. There is some really usefull information for me to go through. Thanks again, the help is appreciated. Greg

Posted By Diane Warne Bryn, Where do you get the DoorDwells from? They sound useful. Diane

Posted By Bryn Maidment Ken I think you've been skim reading like Banjo!! The advertising blurb for DoorDwells states "ten seconds to one minute" a lot shorter than the ten minutes you mentioned on Firenet. Diane, the link should take you through to the company:- http://www.cairney.com/html/doordwell.htm. There are a lot of misconceptions on the Firenet thread. These devices do NOT hold a door open continually. They are a simple, effective device that enable staff who have to negotiate doors to do it without giving themselves a hernia or dislocation. We've all seen what I mean - the handyman pushing a sack barrow through a door whilst holding door and manouevring trolley; porter attempting, with alarming dexterity, to propel 3 stone bed with 15 stone patient through double doors. This device enables them to have the FRSC door held temporarily whilst they breeze through without the wrestling. They can then go on their merry way and the door closes within a minute. This is preferable to the handyman, porter etc wedging the door with the BS wooden wedge I have personally advised their fitting in 3 colleges and 1/2 dozen schools, a local authority and University Hospital Lewisham. Also seen them in other LAs (Bromley,Bexley). I will continue to use them as part of any fire protection strategy because they very definitely have their uses. Perhaps the aversion is due to their simplicity and the fact that someone had their kid shoot them with a sucker gun and is now making a shedload of money out of it......whereas we didn't and aren't!

Posted By Jack You'll probably find your Fire Authority has a view on these acoustically operated devices. Check with them. In my area they initially had reservations but now accept them in 'non critical' locations. They have issued advice on where they are not appropriate. I'm not familiar with dordwells. I came across some devices with suction pads in the late 70s which were used to delay fire doors closing. Are these the same? I seem to recall an incident when a resident with a zimmer frame was going through a door held open by such a device (slowly) when it closed on her with serious consequencies. Use immediately discontinued in that organisation. Jack

Posted By Jack I agree with you Bryn. My point about the zimmer was in relation to the 70s sucker devices which would release a door without warning everytime it was held back, unlike these devices which only release the door when the alarm sounded. I wouldn't even go so far as to say they (the suction devices)should never be used; simply that the issue is addressed in the risk assessment.