Posted By Jim Walker I find it difficult to believe that HSE would say that. Unless its one of the wet behind the ears inspectors that they seem to employ these days.

Posted By JPK Peter, I dont believe that the company has no responsibilty to report this if it happened in the lunch break, during free time!! As with construction sites, you can have all the fencing in the world up, but if a child gets onto the site after hours and injures themselves, then the HSE will crawl all over the Principle contractor for failing to prevent injury. Although it is not the responsability of the organisation to say what they can do on their lunch break, I think preventing playing football on the property would be a wise step. Obviously you haven't said where the accident took place, however safe access and egress for others may come into question. JPK

Posted By Pete48 Peter, fitness for purpose? Is this a properly designed football playing area? Of course not. Have you allowed this activity? Yes. Is this type of injury reasonably foreseeable? Yes given: the surface? the area? employees who may or may not be fit enough to be playing football? Yes it is. What about other employees or visitors, any dangers for them? Whether you let them play football or not is up to you, but if you allow employees to use your premises and facilities for purposes other than those for which they were designed then you may find it difficult to separate yourself from any negative consequences that arise. Killjoy or common sense?? Not that I want to start WW3 you understand!

Posted By Peter Leese Thanks for the responses so far. I'd still like to keep a bit back for later (not to be devious but to try to get unbiased views first). The ground being used is a large concreted completely flat yard area with no defects, the accident occurred when the guy tried to turn with the ball. There are no problems concerning work activities whilst they are playing on their breaks, and there are no near neighbours. It is an all male game (because only males want to play) and age varies from 20 to 45. It is not organised in any way other than a couple of goals are formed by jackets. Think street football as a youngster and you have a good picture of it but without the traffic. There have never been any other injuries other than a scuffed knee or elbow.

Posted By Pete48 Pete, it is organised by definition as it is a team game, do you mean it happens spontaneously? I stick with my previous comments. As the controller of premises you can choose to prevent people from taking these risks on your premises, if you don't then you accept the business risks of allowing it. For example, if the IP had technical support to show that a concrete surface is not suitable for playing football due to the risk of this type of injury. The IP claims they only played because they didn't want to be seen as a "girls blouse" by the all male group who made it plain that not joining in was not an option for me? Can we have the answer soon please, I have to go away this weekend.

Posted By Crim First point - If the IP was "at work" it is reportable. If on an organised break as part of the working day he was at work. If the IP was not at work then what was he - a visitor who was injured and visited hospital for treatment? If so it is reportable. The incident occurred in the workplace therefore risk assessment etc????? Second point - The best "Stopper" I ever saw play was Chopper Harris who played for Chelesea during the 60's. Noone got past him, mind you Tommy Smith wasn't bad either I remember him kicking Jimmy Greaves so hard he ended up in the Paddock at Anfield! Sorry to digress but couldn't help it. I believe the HSE Inspector must have been using his own opinion on games at work as there is no written prohibition of football at work. Inspectors are entitled to their opinion.

Posted By Dan dan Things to think about 1. Place of work but not at work 2. organised in a spontaneous way 3. Designated recreation area - not really 4. Employers duty of care of persons on their site - yes similiar occurance on one of our sites a few years ago where glaziers were having a kick about, one sustained a strained ankle, off work for 2 weeks as a result, the site safety officer reported it to the hse, but the gaffers of the glazing firm didnt. A consequent visit was made by our friends. A recommendation that a fit for purpose and segregated recreation area was allocated (if the guys wanted to "play")

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Posted By John L Hall Surely the forum is moderated to prevent this form of blatant advertising. If not, it should be ..... I was just getting interested in Peter's 'problem'.

Posted By Merv Newman moderators are not on duty 24/7 They have lives. It is very rare that we get spammed but on an open forum it can happen. I suggest that everyone replies to the spammer with massive multiple "orders" for phones. with fake e-mail addresses. That should tie them up for a while. Merv

Posted By martin gray1 Hi Peter Had the same problem staff playing football in the yard with sillages around the yard with steel stocked in them. I could see someone running into the steel so banned football as the risk of injury seemed to high. I took the view that we had seen it going on and if nothing was done we could be seen as condoning it and therefore liable in some way. Took the easy route really and just banned it, easier when your GM as well. Old misery in the office

Posted By J Knight Don't respond to the spam at all unless you know how to hide the originating address of your own email, as one of the things spammers want is live email addys. John PS If they were 'not at work' the the accident wouldn't be reportable even though they had to go to hospital as accidents to members of the public are reportable if they 'arise out of work', not if they are in a workplace. On the whole though I might have reported this.

Posted By Tabs Peter, You are still holding something back and asking people to comment on an incomplete picture. Part of our profession's strength is that we normally form opinion when all the facts are known, after we have gathered them. So here it is: a request for the whole picture, and then you might get more useful answers. So far the answers given cannot be applied, as I would hope the responders would like to reconsider if you hold a pertinent fact (as I suspect you do).

Posted By waiks I would have thought that this fell into the realm of horseplay? It is not a work-related activity. If the grounds are not defective and therefore contributing to the incident I would have thought that this wasn't reportable. But we have had this argument about horseplay in the past. When I called up RIDDOR Reportline they said horseplay wasn't reportable so it's confusing when you have an inpsector that's telling you otherwise now.

Posted By Tabs I cannot comment on the inspector, obviously. With regards to the elements... 1. A flat concrete surface is possibly less likely to result in a twist injury than a firm grass surface being played on with the new 'blade studs' being used throughout the UK. 2. I cannot think of a single piece of legislation allowing an inspector to act as judge and jury to another person's employee. The very most he could do is slap a notice on the company, or initiate a prosecution of an individual ... though goodness only knows what for. 3. Unless the notice in the rest room (or other communications) clearly states that the ban is due to h&s considerations, it is yet further from the inspector's business. 4. I might mention to the client that any reprimand (no matter how informal) should be made under HR, not h&s approach, because this could come back and bite them in any future tribunal. 5. Obviously, if the inspector is correct, then all activities which are not strictly work-related must now cease. Hmm... wonder what Bill Callaghan would have to say on the matter?

Posted By ddraigice Peter, Just one thought reading your thread. It seems the HSE inspector may be out of his jurisdiction - but why has the company banned football in the first place? It seems indicative of poor management of the company if staff are not complying. Have you tried talking to the inspector to find out his viewpoint? If there is no justification for it then you'd be within your rights to disagree. What's he going to do then? As for Nanny state - find out his reasoning before tarring the whole industry!

Posted By ddraigice Yes it is - but I can only go on the info given. Why has it been banned then? Obviously nobody takes this rule seriously and if rules are being made and broken, that is not good management.

Posted By Rob T Sometimes words fail me - when will the HSE, safety people et al stop trying to control peoples lives in their own time. If I want to play football with a lead shot on a mountain slope, in winter with a typhoon behind me - it's none of your business if I'm not actually at work. Control freakery in our profession causes more accidents by ensuring that perfectly normal people get so sick and tired of interfering busy bodies that they ignore real H&S. Why on earth do you think Jeremy Clarson is so popular. I'm off to do a handstand on a bed of nails and yes I am at work!

Posted By Crim Too many flippant remarks here! If employees are banned from playing football on company premises why are they not disciplined. Weak management perhaps? HSE inspector may really be trying to help as he (and you can say he as it is a HSE issue), may really be a nice guy/gal? If management cannot enforce their own rules then they should remove the ban and just allow football to be played, but then report any injuries under RIDDOR. Its late and my glass is MT and needs to be re-filled.

Posted By Peter Leese I'd like to start the thread again if I may, as I'd like some response to the questions! Employees play football on premises during breaks. One employee dislocates knee during one session resulting in a number of days of work. HSE have stated that company should not allow employees to play football on the premises. 1) What legal requirements is there to stop employees playing football on company premises in their own time? 2) If there is a 'stopper' then will this also apply to others affected by the undertaking?