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Posted By Crim
I've been asked to provide a Construction Phase Health and Safety Plan for a project starting tomorrow, or maybe Thursday.
The project is led by a designer and I have requested the Pre Tender Plan which may come today or tomorrow via email.
Does anyone think that the introduction of the CDM 2007 will make any difference at all to this short notice demand from Designers/Clients.
I must add that my Client is a shop fitter and the work is extremely competetive and a refusal to "jump" at a moments notice could lead to tham losing the project.
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Posted By Mark Eden
Two points
1. How can you produce a CHSP without a Pre CHSP - you simply don't have the necassary information
2. What about the Client's duty to allow adequet resources (this includes time)
I would imagine the designer has not told the Client of his duties under current CDM legislation and a PS has not been appointed
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Posted By Arran Linton - Smith
I am sure that despite the new Regulation 10 (3) and 15 (b) of the 2007 CDM Regs, there shall still be many Clients who will have a different idea over the time required for the planning and development of a H&S Plan especially for the Construction Phase of their project.
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Posted By JPK
IMPOSSIBLE!!!
How on earth can you provide a construction phase plan, without the Pre-tender H&S plan and without a comprehensive site visit!
Absolute nonsense, and I would question the Designer/Planning supervisors appreciation of H&S on this job, or their knowledge for that matter!
I have been asked this in the past, to have a CPH&SP within 3 days, strangely enough the PS was removed from the project before the job started for not having their side of the work complete.
I do not appreciate being rushed into making a decision on H&S on my sites, and would advise anyone else to take the same approach.
IS Contruction a high risk activity!?!
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Posted By Ron Hunter
Why not cut to the chase and ask the Client or Designer (or even the Planning Supervisor?)if there are any significant areas of risk which the Principal Contractor could not reasonably be expected to know about? e.g. any Asbestos containing materials?
It is these 'significant areas' which need to be dressed first-off by the initial Construction Phase Plan.
The situation as you describe it does not bode well for the prevention of inadvertant exposure to asbestos in the shop-fitting industry!
Sounds like you shouldn't hold your breath waiting whilst the Client ensures that your initial construction phase plan is sufficiently developed to allow the construction phase to proceed! (Regulation 10).
Will "new" CDM improve on this sort of situation - No!
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
By the way have your people received the statutory traininmg under CAR 2006 for maintenance and refurbishment operatives.?
Bob
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Posted By Chris Pope
In answer to your query.
Any influence following CDM 2007 will be geographical, so folks who are working in a town with HSE offices will feel it.
Where I come from there will still be contractors, surveyors, clients, developers and architects who have not heard of CDM !
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Posted By Crim
Thanks for the responses so far, however some questions need to be answered!
Mark,
I never produce the CDM Plan without first having the Pre tender Plan. As in this case I have not yet received the Pre Tender so have not even started the CDM Plan.
JPK,
The Client has appointed the Designer as project admin/P S. The Designer on this project is Japanese (I jest not).
Ron,
Asbestos - when encountered work stops!
Asbestos register is usually provided pre tendering.
P S do not wish to see my CDM Plans any more as they are happy with those provided in the past.
I usually provide a duplicate copy for Centre Management.
Bob,
What is CAR 2006?
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Posted By JPK Crim, CAW Regs 2006 I presume. (Control of Asbestos @ Works Regs) You say the Designer/PS is Japanese. I dont understand the relevance of his nationaity. Is it a Japanese based company taking on the project here?? If so, they still must follow our regs, and more to the point, a client must follow this guide. http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/misc193.pdfMaybe a copy of this could be useful for the client as they may not be fully clear of their duties.
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Posted By Ron Hunter
Off thread I know, but just to clarify the Asbestos Regs issue, the "at work" part is removed from the New Regs as they now include what was the Prohibition Regs which apply across the supply chain. It was CAWR 2002 and other Regs (Prohibitions, Licensing). It is now one set of combined Regs "Control of Asbestos Regulations" = CAR 2006.
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Posted By JPK
Of course Ron, just trying to make it a little clearer ;)
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
JPK/Crim
Control of Asbestos Regulations 2006 note no Work mentioned.
The regulations and Acop extend the training requirements to those who can forseeably encounter asbestos and specifically includes maintenance and refurbishment operatives and their managers/supervisors. There is a set syllabus and it must be carried out by a competent person and certified annually, in broad essence at least.
The asbestos register on its own is not sufficient for either yourself or the premise owner/manager to fulfill your duties. If you are penetrating the fabric how will your operatives be aware of asbestos before they do it? At least CDM 2007 will bring in some additional controls for the smaller non-notifiable jobs as well. This will include the provision of information to the contractor so far as can be reasonably ascertained. it also will include the need to appoint competent contractors.
Bob
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Posted By Dave Wilson
And the requirement for a Type 3 Asbestos Survey as part of the pre tender Information pack, this is also a requirement under CAR 06 Reg 5
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
DW
We also need to remember that reg 6 derives also from reg 4 The duty to manage and reg 5 The duty to identify. The new acop L127 for regulation 4 is also helpful in this and I would urge all maintenance and refurbishment companies to become fully familiar with the interplay of these and CDM 2007. The HSE have identified shopfitters in the long list of potentially exposed operatives, the list includes telecoms engineers and IT installers as well!! so you can see that the training net is being cast wide.
Bob
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