Posted By cvjm
Is it generally the rule that every activity that a Maintenance technician can carry out is covered by a RA and if not, a task specific permit?
I would appreciate a bit of a consensus?

And if not - what alternatives are there?
thanks in advance!

Posted By Paul Oliver
when you carry out a risk assessment you are only required to record the significant risks.

If you are using a fully trained and competent person to carry out routine tasks that do not create significant risk then there would be no need to maintain a record of these tasks.

However, it would be recomended that a pre-start checklist or prompt card be used in order to identy any possible unforseen hazards.

some companies cover routine tasks with maintenance procedures which are reviewed on a yearly basis, but an importatnt point is to ensure that the person carrying out the work is competent to do so.

Posted By Chris Jerman
Trying to cover every maintenance task individually would be a lifetime's work and largely unnecessary. Remember that all we're trying to do is gather the right information to combat the issues that they face through the various solutions from engineering out the problem to PPE.

I favour the pick 'n' mix approach. By using job role, location and equipment, it's possible to build up a fairly comprehensive list of the places that they visit and the equipment that they use or work on. Once established, it is possible to gather together the core elements of their work. The output would look something like:

Use of non powered hand tools
Use of powered hand tools
Use of static work shop equipment
Use of portable step ladders
Use of leaning ladders
Use of portable access equipment
Working on hydraulic systems
Working on domestic voltage systems
Access / egress of plant rooms
Access / egress of roof areas
etc etc

See the idea? Using the 3 element (people, location, equipment)the list builds into a comprehensive overview of the role of a maintenance technician. If you go down the removing a valve, removing a roller, disconnecting a motor - you will go on forever.

So working up a ladder, with a drill, on a pneumatic system is actually covered by the 3 safe systems involved. The technician needs to do a brief site analysis to ensure that there are no other active elements that come into play - like internal traffic for example.

Most jobs can be broken down in advance like this. Attending a breakdown for example would not be the subject for a new assessment. Anyway, in all likelihood, they're not going to write assessments at the time (Let's be real). Making sure that all of the controls (isolation, barriering off etc) are at their disposal and are used is the key here.

If you then need a permit, it should relate to the use of the controls in the safe systems of work identified. The permit of course, just being a receipt and not a control in its own right.

Chris

Posted By Chris Jerman
If you want to go through it in a bit more detail (there are some tricks to making it work that you really need to know to make it bullet resistant) give me a shout. Happy to spend the time. For free, of course!

CJ

Posted By Rob Jones
Chris,

I find your pick ans mix approach interesting and workable! I may try to adopt a similar approach.

Thanks,

RJ

Posted By Ian MacAskill
I am working to introduce a "one minute risk assessment" into our Maintenance Department. I stole the idea from a a contractor that visited our site recently. Essentially the engineer carries out a brief assessment before any task is carried out - an assessment would be required for every Works Order carried out on site - so the system is audit-able. The form is simple and suggests "control measures" required for each given scenario. I will happily e-mail a copy if you would like to have a look.

Posted By Ken John
Ian

I would be interested in what you have please oculd you email me the details.

Ken

Posted By Melanie Fellows
Hi Ian,

Could I also have a copy of your 1 minute risk assessment please?

Thanks,

Mel

Posted By David Banister
Hi Ian

I am currently working on a similar process for our maintenance crew to perform dynamic risk assessments in "one off" situations could you please send over a copy of what you have

Thanks

Dave

PS this is my first post and new to IOSH...hi to everyone....

Posted By Seano
Ian,

I am thinking along the lines of something similar. Is it possible for you to email me a copy?

Many Thanks

Sean

Posted By mark linton

Afternoon Ian and Richard

Would it be possible if you could email me a copy of your risk assessments - they both sound very interesting.

To take this in a slightly different direction - I had a long and reasonably fruitless discussion on this topic with our engineering staff and the problems included (as they saw them):
1) A piece of paper does not make you safe.
2) It was only a paper exercise to protect the company
3) They would be so busy doing paperwork they wouldn't be able to do anything else (the one minute risk assessment could put pay to that)
4) Their "training / competence is what protects them"
5) The idea that the "paper", brings into question their ability and their judgement to do their jobs

How have other people managed this issue with engineer?

Thanks
Mark

Posted By GARRY WIZZ
Hi Mark

I have the same problem with engineers not fully on board, some what complicated by the addition of management as well.


My approach has been to step lightly. I introduced very small changes in working procedures just so that they could get used to the idea that DOING IT DIFFERENT will not induce armageddon.The small changes proved that it was possible to do the job and my ideas are not rubbish. The changes involved no paper work.

After seven months I have issued the new safety manual. It is half the size of the old one.Content of the old one was fine but at 200 plus pages no one including me read it.

As an example, for work at Height using a ladder I have the HSE guidance,SSOW, laminated a4 with about 20 questions that they have to tick yes in order to do the job.
At the bottom is the number to ring if you have a NO answer.

I have been out with the engineers and proved on the job that it will work without hindrance.

Knowing my engineers I will over the next few months have to keep going out and making sure they have completed check lists and complied with safety instructions.

It would have been nice and a lot safer if I could have effected change over a week.

However I think it will take a year to get to my current targets after which I will set the bar higher and again have to drag them to my point of view.

Quick fixes are not always on the table and hence you may have to embark on a campaign to get to the end game.

hence your best approach might be to effect one safety change that has easily identified benefits and then build on it.

Posted By Barry Cooper
Ian, Richard
A bit late, but any chance of a copy of the risk assessments, as having problems with engineers, "it'll never happen to me"

Barry

Posted By Kevin Drum
Ian would be interested in look at 1 min RA. I am currently ploughing through maintenance RA's
and looking to simplify where I can.

regards Kevin

Posted By GARRY WIZZ
Mark L,

I noted your comment of engineers saying paper is not safe. There is not time to do it.

Have been there.

Prove them wrong is the best option.

It takes to long to do the paper work, load of rubbish.

They needed to use a ladder, so I was with them and it took 65 seconds to complete the check list to ensure it was safe.
We then agreed that they was being negative and not cooperating as I had proved that we could do the job and work safe and the paperwork had no negative effect.

Select a pratise that will allow you to show its easy and leaves no room for the engineers to find fault in your system.

I then had to challenge the idea that as engineers they could work safely because they ARE engineers.

I visited daily for a week and pointed out all the unsafe practises.

At the end of the week I had shown that the engineer had a negative attitude and no evidence to support his position.

I had proved that the job could be done safely

If someone says to me that safety is a waste of time I know I am dealing with a dim wit, hence not much of challenge.

Garry

Posted By Kev Ran
Hello,
Extremely interesting to see a thread running having recently come out of a meeting with our insurers who have recommended that out maintenance staff carry out risk assessments!
I would be very interested in reading about the 'one minute risk assessment which was posted to much response by Ian.
Does anybody have a copy that they could forward onto me please?
Many thanks and best wishes,
Kevin

Posted By John Lewis
Mark and Gary have hit the nail on the head with their references to the usual excuses that maintenance people come out with. I had an interesting development from a facilities manager last week regarding an isolation policy i have written (which worked faultlessly in my last job for five years without creating any delays to work incidentally). He does not want my policy implemented because it "Questions the professional integrity of his staff ........".

Obviously this is now going higher up the food chain. I'll keep youall informed.

John

Posted By Dave Nicholls
Hi all,

If anyone has got a copy of the one minute risk assessment and be kind enough to email it to me, I would be very grateful.

Many Thanks

Dave

Posted By Stevie Smith
Hi Ian.

Would it be possible for you to send me a copy of your 1 minute risk assessment?

Thanks,
Steve.

Posted By DKH
Could someone please forward me the 1 minute assement.

Many thanks in advanace