Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

IOSH Forums are closing 

The IOSH Forums will close on 5 January 2026 as part of a move to a new, more secure online community platform.

All IOSH members will be invited to join the new platform following the launch of a new member database in the New Year. You can continue to access this website until the closure date. 

For more information, please visit the IOSH website.

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Admin  
#1 Posted : 24 January 2008 17:35:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Barrie (Badger) Etter
Can anyone point me to the right section (if there is one).
I'm trying to find reference to safety monitoring (or any monitoring) in the HSaWA74, but currently unable to find it.
Yes I know there's requirement in the Management regs but unable to find it in the Act.
The answer will aid a legislative research.

Badger
Admin  
#2 Posted : 24 January 2008 18:19:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Jay Joshi
HASAWA has genral duties-- Duties under Section 2, 3, 4 cannot be ensured unless there is some form of monitoring, especially "safe systems of work".

Alternatively, as the Management Regulations are explicit in context of monitoring, you CAN link this to HASAWA as HASAWA allows for regulations to be made!(Section 15)
Admin  
#3 Posted : 25 January 2008 10:45:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Barrie (Badger) Etter
Thanks Jay.

Now does anyone know of a web site that I can access the Management Regs without having to wrestle with the HSE's search engine for the section on monitoring?

Badger
Admin  
#4 Posted : 25 January 2008 10:50:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Dave Wilson
There is NO specific legal requirement to undertake safety monitoring.

See HSG65 in the Foreward section.

However how else do you know how well you are performing?
Admin  
#5 Posted : 25 January 2008 10:54:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Robert K Lewis
Except that adequate supervision requirements under section 2 can be interpreted as including the monitoring of work. After all if the supervisor has no idea of what is happening is he actually supervising?

Bob
Admin  
#6 Posted : 25 January 2008 11:22:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Barrie (Badger) Etter
Dave
You mentioned HSG65. As section 5 of HSG65 covers monitoring, compliance is required in accordance with clause 16 & 17 of the HSWA bcs of its quasi legal status. Apart from the HSG65 I'm beginning to feel there's no out and out absolute use of the word 'monitoring' in either the Act or Mangt Regs.
Unless some one can say different / point to a specific section in a passage.

Badger
Admin  
#7 Posted : 25 January 2008 11:41:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Paul Leadbetter
The full text of the regs can be found here: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1999/19993242.htm.

Reg 5 specifies monitoring as part of the health and safety arrangements.

Paul
Admin  
#8 Posted : 25 January 2008 11:53:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Barrie (Badger) Etter
Thanks Paul, found it!

Badger
Admin  
#9 Posted : 25 January 2008 12:21:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Dave Wilson
Do not get mixed up with Statutory requirements and good practice.

HS G(guidance) is just that so I Disagree completely.

Guidance is just that, You do not have to comply with guidance note, foolish not too right enough.

Generally there is NO legal requirement to undertake safety monitoring

MHSW s5
Every employer shall make and give effect to such arrangements as are appropriate,
having regard to the nature of his activities and the size of his undertaking, for the effective planning, organisation, control, monitoring and review of the preventive and protective measures

Do not see the word auditing in there!
Admin  
#10 Posted : 25 January 2008 13:38:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Jay Joshi
I am surprised that we are being pedantic about the terms used in regulation 5 and then interpret it as though somehow, auditing is not required because that word "auditing" is not used !

The ACOP to regulation 5 of MHSWR 99 is:-

This regulation requires employers to have arrangements in place to cover health and safety. Effective management of health and safety will depend, amongst other things, on a suitable and sufficient risk assessment being carried out and the findings being used effectively. The health and safety arrangements can be integrated into the management system for all other aspects of the organisation's activities. The management system adopted will need to reflect the complexity of the organisation's activities and working environment. Where the work process is straightforward and the risks generated are relatively simple to control, then very straightforward management systems may be appropriate. For large complicated organisations more complex systems may be appropriate. Although the principles of the management arrangements are the same irrespective of the size of an organisation. The key elements of such effective systems can be found in Successful Health and Safety Management (see references and further reading section) or the British Standard for Health and Safety Management Systems BS 8800.

A successful health and safety management system will include all the following elements.

Planning,
Organisation,
Control,
Monitoring and
Review



Review involves:

(a) establishing priorities for necessary remedial action that were discovered as a result of monitoring to ensure that suitable action is taken in good time and is completed;

(b) periodically reviewing the whole of the health and safety management system including the elements of planning, organisation, control and monitoring to ensure that the whole system remains effective


From the above ACoP, specifically the ACoP on Review, it is fairly obvious that some form of "audit" is required. What the AcoP allows is that the management system will depend upon the complexity (or simplicity)of the organisation's activities and working environment.

Let us not forget the an ACoP is not just guidance.
Admin  
#11 Posted : 25 January 2008 13:56:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Dave Wilson
Is this ACoP or Guidance in the ACoP?
Admin  
#12 Posted : 25 January 2008 15:00:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Jay Joshi
Dave,

This is all ACoP, not guidance!!You need to refer to the Second (2000) Edition of L 21 that was published after the 1999 regs. The ACoP material in first edition was very limited
Users browsing this topic
Guest
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.