Morning all!

I've just been informed by a colleage that glucagon emergency kit are a legal requirement in the workplace. Can anyone shed any light? I have conducted various Google searches and not found anything.

When I've done first aid at work training we've always been told the only medication we can give is the epipen as it a one hit wonder, everything else you can't administer.

If anyone can assist in pointing me in the right direcation I would appreciate it!

TIA

Please ask this colleague which statutory instrument / regulation specifies this requirement.

Looking at Diabetes UK there is a lot to consider when administering this injection to an unconcious casualty, certainly nothing that appeared in any recent training sessions.

There are NO injections listed by the HSE as First Aid Kit content.

Thanks chaps, connfirming what I already knew. Bit of a know it all I'm afraid and the answer of "there is no legal requirement" and "First Aid at Work training doen't allow you to inject people" doesn't cut it. 

generally the kits are not injection type..more tablets and gels...the twist is that if your First Aid risk Assessment identifies that you have that risk on site and that this is one of the control measures then yes it is legally required...it is life threatening dependa on your ambulance response time in your area - Wales or Scotland outside of cities I would recommend you have them and train the first aiders in thier application...

I am sure that we have had this discussion  on the forum before and as far as First Aid at Work is concerned, we are only responsible for managing risks arising out of work activities, ie trips and falls, exposure to nasty substances electric shock burns etc. we are responsible for dealing with medical emergencies,  so we don’t ask who is a diabetic and keep a stock of  insulin just in case or supply of nitro-glycerine in case someone has a heart attack. I remember years ago going on about why I had epipens  available for some first aiders-we had bees on site but that was definitely work related not just random bees.        

So why would glucagon be a requirement in a workplace?

Originally Posted by: achrn

Originally Posted by: stevedm

generally the kits are not injection type..more tablets and gels...

All the glucagon kits I can find are injections - and it seems unlikely that a tablet or gel can deliver the hormone (otherwise all those kits that have a relatively complex imix liquid A with powder B and inject it would have an easier system).

I don't think such a thing shoudl be in a workplace first-aid kit.

A hypoglycemia emergency kit may be tablets and gels, but that's something different, I think.

dear me...ok lets put my BSc in Paramedic Science against your ability to Google...what medical emergency are you trying to solve?

Could it be that it is low blood sugar and the other is unprocessed blood sugar? They present the same way..

Glucagon and insulin work together in the body to ensure that we maintain the correct levels..homeostatis..both are related

Do not inject anyone with insulin or glucagon you clearly don't know what you are doing.

Searching reputable suppliers and UK pharmacies who would furnish First Aid supplies for the workplace returns zero hits on a Glucagon Emergency Kit being available to purchase.

Is this more a case their doctor has recommended the person carries a kit but has not issued a free prescription?

I would advise you send this person on the next available 1st aid course, since they are obviously invested in that area. From this they wil lhave their knowledge updated and will understand that they are wrong.

This has the benefit of getting buy-in from the awkward person, since it is not your fault that they are wrong. They will now have to look after the 1st aid supplies as part of their role, which they obviosuly care about and it shows willingness  to listen. all whilst making your job easier!

Simples!

Originally Posted by: stevedm

Originally Posted by: achrn

Originally Posted by: stevedm

generally the kits are not injection type..more tablets and gels...

All the glucagon kits I can find are injections - and it seems unlikely that a tablet or gel can deliver the hormone (otherwise all those kits that have a relatively complex imix liquid A with powder B and inject it would have an easier system).

I don't think such a thing shoudl be in a workplace first-aid kit.

A hypoglycemia emergency kit may be tablets and gels, but that's something different, I think.

dear me...ok lets put my BSc in Paramedic Science against your ability to Google...what medical emergency are you trying to solve?

Could it be that it is low blood sugar and the other is unprocessed blood sugar? They present the same way..

Glucagon and insulin work together in the body to ensure that we maintain the correct levels..homeostatis..both are related

Do not inject anyone with insulin or glucagon you clearly don't know what you are doing.

Why are you so sour?  No, I'm not qualified to inject anyone with anything, none of our first-aiders are qualified to inject anyone with anything (as far as I know), and none of my workplace first-aid kits contain any injections. I have no intention of injecting anyone with anything.

What I'm addressing is the assertion that glucagon kits are based on tablets and gels.  I note that the original question was specifically about glucagon kits, it was not treatment of diabetes-related incidents.

If  what I said is factually wrong can you perhaps provide a link to supplier of glucagon kits that do not require injection.

SteveDM

"dear me...ok lets put my BSc in Paramedic Science against your ability to Google...what medical emergency are you trying to solve?"

First aiders don't need degrees as paramedics.

If a first aider chose to get such a degree perhaps they might think of a career change.

Sometimes it is possible to know too much to answer a legitimate question with an appropriate, yet polite, answer.

I would be surprised if you don't use Google to help you with some of YOUR research, and from what I have read on this thread it seems to me that respondents have made good use of such a means of looking into the question raised.

Then he really should know better than to claim that provision of any medicine for first aid purposes is a legal requirement.

Ask him where in the course materials for his first aid training this is stated?

Because it hasn't been in any first aid training I've ever done, indeed quite the reverse.

Does that indicate he did not understand the training, as such could be considered incompetent and therefore no longer eligible for the FAAW payment?

https://www.sja.org.uk/get-advice/first-aid-advice/diabetic-emergencies/diabetic-emergency/

That about covers it, please note the line under section 1 of hypoglycaemia

If they have their own glucose gel or glucose tablets, help them take it. 

Epipens are described as "pre-loaded auto injectors" which is a world of difference from swinging a hypodermic for subcutaneous / intramuscular / intravenous medication.

You are correct SLord, however there is a world of difference between an epipen and a shot of insulin. The most important difference being that 1st aiders are trained to administer epipens, but not insulin. 

1/ I am not sure what else we would be comparing an epipen to, in terms of injecting, if not insulin in this case. My apologies if you where thinking of a different substance to inject diabetics with.

2/ I have no doubt that anybody can administer an epipen. I do doubt that everybody has the the knowledge/confidence to do it, without being shown how first. If you walked up to a random person in the street and asked them if they could administer an epipen in an emergency I suspect quite a few would say "no".

Why do people assume that written english is widely read/understood/comprehended.

At a number of employments I have had to deal with not only the usual educational issues and dyslexia but entire workforces whose mother tongue was not mine even though the operations were both solidly based within the United Kingdom.

Edited by user 18 August 2021 19:32:03(UTC)  | Reason: location

Originally Posted by: Todai

in my view, train a competent person to administer medicines.

So what, you retain an emergency doctor on standby in your premises?  You'll need a doctor, because the thread is talking about prescription-only medicine, which you (apparently) think employers should be training someone to supply and administer.

Originally Posted by: Todai

train a competent person

If they are competent it is normal they would provide rather than receive training

Interesting thread guys. I applaud those of you who are forthright in your views and have the character to stick with it (not that anyone requires my validation). Anyway...

It seems to me that the know-it-all is trying to gain a personal advantage over others and or financial gain to themselves by using their disability to influence you and others. This in itself needs to be pushed up the chain and have a recorded discussion with this know-it-all. Call them out, highlight their inaccurate statements and their unprofessional behaviour to those who manage them.

Tell them it is a prescription only medicine that your company is not liable to either pay for or to administer. It is the individual who has the responsibility for their own health in this scenario. Do they undertake any task within their role that could be perceived to be a contributing factor if an 'episode' were to occur? I think not because you would have the risk assessment to inform you, coupled with any doctors recommendations and / or occupational health professional advice.

This situation reminds me of an someone I know and they use their disability to excuse themselves from certain tasks and to gain an advantage for others and any criteria they choose to employ can change on a whim. the person I'm referring to refuses to use the diasabled toilets but when it suits will always state they are disabled. Unfortunately in life, you will get those people who are so miserable that they need to bring others down with needless challenges and ridiculous expectations to give themselves some meaning and at the very least, some social interaction in some way because most people steer clear of them - and for good reason.

Too many people do nothing and expect everything. Best practice is to call out double standards wherever you encounter it.

Rant over.