Is signage saying 'do not use this lift in the event of a fire' an actual statutory requirement?  If so, where is teh requirement found?  Our lift is old technology (but properly maintained, LOLER, etc)  and it doesn't park itself at ground when the fire alarm goes off.

(I've just had my periodic recurrent disagreement with an auditor about how much signage we need to have - I know I'm right about some of it, but not so sure about the lift one).

will admit fire is not an area i deal with very often - but i have always gone with the same reason as A Kurdziel - as part of teh risk assessment. Just did a quick google (other search enginbes are available) and found this:

The use of lifts for fire emergency evacuation | Croner-i (croneri.co.uk)

Have to say i usual find croneri a reliable source of info.

There are some interesting bits in this 

 normally dictates that passenger lifts should not be used for emergency evacuation. This is reflected in government guidance that notes that a lift not specifically designed as a fire fighting or evacuation lift is “not normally considered acceptable as a means of escape”.

BS 9999:2017 Fire Safety in the Design, Management and Use of Buildings. Code of Practice, which states that lifts not explicitly designed for evacuation should not be used for general evacuation, “but they may be used for the evacuation of disabled people” provided that certain recommendations are met

BS 9999 provides a useful list of factors to be considered when assessing the use of a passenger lift, including the:

• interface between the lift control system and the fire detection and alarm system so as to support the evacuation management strategy

• controlled operation of the lift will be possible during an evacuation (evacuation switches)

• power supply to the lift is likely to remain usable throughout the time required for evacuation.

Other factors to consider will be in relation to the measures built into the property including the provision of a refuge area, communication equipment, protected lobbies, etc.

The risk assessment should be evaluating whether the lift meets the recommendations given in Annex G of BS 9999. The same requirements are now also found in Annex C of BS 8899. The criteria set cover both physical elements and managerial elements such as:

• a minimum size for the lift car and doors

• the basic requirements of BS EN 81-20/81-70 are met

• power should be provided from a dedicated submain circuit

• trained staff should be designated to manage the use of the lift.

Where all relevant criteria are met and the risk assessment justifies the use of the passenger lift, then a suitable strategy can be developed for the use of the lift for evacuation purposes.

Not sure i could persuade a fire risk assessor of this and key would probably be power supply to the lift is likely to remain usable throughout the time required for evacuation. - but interseting reading. 

If the lift is not to be used (because of your fire RA) I would be putting a notice on it.

Thanks for comments.

To clarify, I'm not proposing using the lift in a fire.  Our fire instructions (at each manual call point) say don't use the lifts, and our induction says don't use the lifts, and no-one has ever attempted to use the lift during a fire drill.

I just despise excessive uneccesary signage, especially when it's ugly.

If it's required by law, I'll put it up.  If it's 'gold plating' I will probably resist it.

I also despise unnecessary signage, but this one serves a valid purpose.

If you only ever did what is directly and explicitly prescribed in the law, you wouldn't have any fire precautions at all because the law about fire precautions isn't prescriptive. 

If the problem is that the sign is ugly, then why not design your own, prettier sign?

Originally Posted by: Kate

If the problem is that the sign is ugly, then why not design your own, prettier sign?

Yes, I thought about that - something nicely engraved in stainless steel to match the lift surround.  Sadly, I'm also lazy and a cheapskate, so it will probably be ugly self-adhesive vinyl anyway.

Peter...being the geek that I am - 'to resist would be futile', along with 'DESTROY, DESTROY, DESTROY...'

I know a few production managers that seem to live by these words...

Come on guys and girls.

Star trek – enemy is the Borg and their slogan is – “Resistance is Futile” they then assimilate you and turn you into another Borg.

Dr Who – enemy is Dalek’s and their saying is – “exterminate”

Daleks originally could not go over rough ground or on stairs however in a more recent ( few years ago) episode they could hover  / fly and go up stairs ( looked a bit like they were on a stair lift.)

On a slightly side note – a spin off from star trek called “Picard”, when the war with the Borg who had their cube space ship was over. In one scene some of the main characters were on a Borg cube have a discussion and in the background on the wall was a sign that said:

2964 days since the last assimilation

The number may not be exact, but you get the gist, made me laugh anyway.

Sorry to the OP it is Friday and I’m on holiday next week and I have given up already.

Internet seemed to suggest that you can get a brushed aluminium and red sign for about £14.

Ps if there was a safety enemy to joe public – would their saying be – Safety is Compulsory

And Betsy was ok until it rained, but yellow and black so good safety colours

Ok I’ll get my anorak and go

Chris

Originally Posted by: chris42

Come on guys and girls.

S

Sorry to the OP it is Friday and I’m on holiday next week and I have given up already.

 And Betsy was ok until it rained, but yellow and black so good safety colours

Ok I’ll get my anorak and go

Chris

You know what i thought it was Betsy - but google (other internet serach engines are avialable) says it was Bessie - and as we know if its on the internet it must be true! Is it home time?

Peter Cushing

Klingons (the Firm didn't sing about the borg)

Whomobile (looked like Blofeld's Bathosub in Diamonds are forever)

I was once told by a fire prevention officer that you can't have too many signs.

Once the fire alarm is sounding and flames are burning your rear end it is too late for asking questions.

Problem with nice signs that blend in with the lift surround is they "BLEND IN" and therefore become almost invisible.

No more Mr Nice Guy, I would have signs that are easily seen from a reasonable distance and can be read once close up.  Also consider Brail for partially sighted people.

I'm with Brian on this. Too many signs are counterproductive.

Exactly the same as putting everyone into yellow hi-vis (or orange on the railways) - there was a waste management company who did a little unscientific experiment in a shopping centre. 12 waste staff in the shopping centre. The customers could only remember seeing a few. When they then put the same staff in pink hi-vis they stood out and the customers saw many more.

Yellow hi-vis is everywhere and so becomes invisible. So are signs that all conform with standard rules,  and often with soooooooo many.

Originally Posted by: Brian Hagyard

...... people become "Sign Blind" if you are not catful and have two many.

I agree. Too many signs aint a great idea ;)