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J Sullivan  
#1 Posted : 17 May 2024 13:02:36(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
J Sullivan

Hi all

Thinking out loud here in readyness to join a meeting in a few weeks to discuss this topic 

What are our obligations from a health & safety perspective legally, by means of ventilation within the workplace a machine shop .If I have climate concerns and ventilation allegations

I would take some advice on a starting point 

thanks 

John  

Roundtuit  
#2 Posted : 17 May 2024 13:19:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Top level if you are constucting from scratch is Approved Document L for England & Wales

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ventilation-approved-document-f

Then there is the HSE guidance

https://www.hse.gov.uk/ventilation/overview.htm

which for a machine shop will likely include COSHH and/or Local Exhaust Ventilation

Ultimately temperature will be down to "majority concern" which now we have had a coupe of sunny days there is a strange absence of the usual "What is the maximum temperature" in the press.

thanks 4 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
J Sullivan on 17/05/2024(UTC), miajackson1117 on 24/05/2024(UTC), J Sullivan on 17/05/2024(UTC), miajackson1117 on 24/05/2024(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 17 May 2024 13:19:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Top level if you are constucting from scratch is Approved Document L for England & Wales

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ventilation-approved-document-f

Then there is the HSE guidance

https://www.hse.gov.uk/ventilation/overview.htm

which for a machine shop will likely include COSHH and/or Local Exhaust Ventilation

Ultimately temperature will be down to "majority concern" which now we have had a coupe of sunny days there is a strange absence of the usual "What is the maximum temperature" in the press.

thanks 4 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
J Sullivan on 17/05/2024(UTC), miajackson1117 on 24/05/2024(UTC), J Sullivan on 17/05/2024(UTC), miajackson1117 on 24/05/2024(UTC)
J Sullivan  
#4 Posted : 17 May 2024 13:28:42(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
J Sullivan

thanks for the docs appreciate you sending me the links

I think when i get into this one its going to be connected to  mist and vapour and the LEV controls around CNC machining, Some machines  are not fully enclosed units , therefor the work area / factory is not providing clean air ??? 

chris42  
#5 Posted : 17 May 2024 13:33:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post

Ultimately temperature will be down to "majority concern" which now we have had a coupe of sunny days there is a strange absence of the usual "What is the maximum temperature" in the press.

Not so much the press but: The World Health organisation recommends a max temp of 24 degrees. I’m sure I read somewhere that after 24 degrees people start to lose concentration and work level goes down. However there is sometimes a need to be in higher than normal conditions, and you need to put measures in place to accommodate.

We now appear to have more info from the op.

thanks 1 user thanked chris42 for this useful post.
J Sullivan on 20/05/2024(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#6 Posted : 17 May 2024 14:11:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

24C is so impracticable - there are many industries and geographies where the ambient is way above.

If it were implemented you can forget dining out over summer - some commercial kitchens are 30C in the middle of winter! Then we could discuss supply chan disruption in hot industries - paper, iron, steel, cement, aluminium, plastics, chemicals, oil.

Paris 2019 - 42C, London 2022 - 40C, Athens 1977 - 48C, Qatar 2010 - 50C

Imagine building stadiums for three years

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
J Sullivan on 20/05/2024(UTC), J Sullivan on 20/05/2024(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#7 Posted : 17 May 2024 14:11:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

24C is so impracticable - there are many industries and geographies where the ambient is way above.

If it were implemented you can forget dining out over summer - some commercial kitchens are 30C in the middle of winter! Then we could discuss supply chan disruption in hot industries - paper, iron, steel, cement, aluminium, plastics, chemicals, oil.

Paris 2019 - 42C, London 2022 - 40C, Athens 1977 - 48C, Qatar 2010 - 50C

Imagine building stadiums for three years

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
J Sullivan on 20/05/2024(UTC), J Sullivan on 20/05/2024(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#8 Posted : 17 May 2024 14:41:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

I think you might be right J about the risks from inadequate LEV. You need to establish( measure) what is in the aerosols and what risk it poses to workers. Remember to include the risk from any cutting fluid itself, any metal particles in the aerosol, any microorganisms that might grow in the cutting fluid,  the risk from biocides that have been added to inhibit those microorganisms, plus any tramp oils that might form.

Someone has to decide if they are using the right cutting oils that minimises risks to workers and if they are then, is there anything that can be done to reduce the risk eg by adding biocides or changing the cutting fluid etc.

Then you look at LEV which is preferred to dilution ventilation because it gets the aerosol before people are exposed to it, and then you go to the dilution ventilation. 

thanks 1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
J Sullivan on 20/05/2024(UTC)
peter gotch  
#9 Posted : 19 May 2024 14:15:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi John

I think this is a scenario where it might help to take yourself back in time.

In ye olden days the first sections of the Factories Act 1961 (and its predecessors) dealt with issues that might be broadly described as coming under the heading "Welfare". One of those Sections was Section 4 which covered "general ventilation".

Much later in the Act came Section 63 which dealt with exposure to harmful airborne contaminants. So this was where LEV and other technical controls came in. Tougher than Section 4 as it required "practicable" rather than "reasonably practicable" measures.

thanks 1 user thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
J Sullivan on 20/05/2024(UTC)
miajackson1117  
#10 Posted : 24 May 2024 06:44:34(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
miajackson1117

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post

Top level if you are constucting from scratch is Approved Document L for England & Wales

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ventilation-approved-document-f

Then there is the HSE guidance

https://www.hse.gov.uk/ventilation/overview.htmlove tester

which for a machine shop will likely include COSHH and/or Local Exhaust Ventilation

Ultimately temperature will be down to "majority concern" which now we have had a coupe of sunny days there is a strange absence of the usual "What is the maximum temperature" in the press.

Thank you very much for your sharing


thanks 1 user thanked miajackson1117 for this useful post.
J Sullivan on 24/05/2024(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#11 Posted : 24 May 2024 09:35:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Well miajackson1117 I do not feel the love for people who place hidden hyperlinks in my posts - REPORTED

thanks 4 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 24/05/2024(UTC), peter gotch on 24/05/2024(UTC), A Kurdziel on 24/05/2024(UTC), peter gotch on 24/05/2024(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#12 Posted : 24 May 2024 09:35:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Well miajackson1117 I do not feel the love for people who place hidden hyperlinks in my posts - REPORTED

thanks 4 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 24/05/2024(UTC), peter gotch on 24/05/2024(UTC), A Kurdziel on 24/05/2024(UTC), peter gotch on 24/05/2024(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#13 Posted : 24 May 2024 11:05:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Roundtuit- has your post been hijacked or is this just case of identity theft? 

If this has triggered you,  there are websites available to help you....
or you can get on with it.​​​​​​​
peter gotch  
#14 Posted : 24 May 2024 15:52:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

AK - at a very quick glance I could buy a domain name in the British Indian Ocean Territory for just £45 for a year. xxxxxx.io

Nice discount if I wanted 5 years. 

Not going to look into what a "love-tester" website would be about!

However, it just goes to show that these Forums are viewed from far afield, that is if "Mia" is actually in the British Indian Ocean Territory!

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