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Steve e ashton  
#1 Posted : 11 June 2021 06:00:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve e ashton

BBC carrying an interesting perspective on the imminent potential demise of petrol stations. I like the description of the h&s issues associated with fuelling petrol and diesel. My first thought was some concern for hgv operators who will need to find ways of keeping the nation moving.... Article here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57416829

Brian Hagyard  
#2 Posted : 11 June 2021 07:45:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Brian Hagyard

Dont you just love quality reporting! Petrol stations are dangerouse because of the highly flamable liquid - electricity is safe because its everywhere - Dont have the figures to hand but i bet more people die of electricution each year than from fule spills!

thanks 1 user thanked Brian Hagyard for this useful post.
Dazzling Puddock on 15/06/2021(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 11 June 2021 08:17:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Picture of a gas guzzler at a gas station /:)

Having just transferred to a Plug-In Hybrid I do not perceive an imminent decline in liquid fuel usage.

1) There is a real lack of available charging points (including at work)

2) As with all "new" technology there is a plethora of connectors and battery charging rates

3) Even if you locate one working with your vehicles adapter socket you are not guaranteed someone is not using the bay for normal parking

The biggest issue against the historical fore court model is the rate of charge - filling a tank can be comlpleted in under 15 minutes, last time I went to a public charging point it took that long just to connect to the service.

We are also being primed to be exploited - HMRC currently lists £0-04/mile as a business milage rate for electric vehicles (AER), first experience at a public charger was £0-23/mile (electric cost / range created).

The article however if it wanted to consider the H&S slant missed the biggest risk from this new type of vehicle - the trailing leads all over the floor (as pictured)!

You can already picture the forum of the future

- an employee tripped over an EV charging cable in the car park is it RIDDOR?

- are we liable if a member of public trips over an EV charging cable connected to a charger on our land?

Roundtuit  
#4 Posted : 11 June 2021 08:17:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Picture of a gas guzzler at a gas station /:)

Having just transferred to a Plug-In Hybrid I do not perceive an imminent decline in liquid fuel usage.

1) There is a real lack of available charging points (including at work)

2) As with all "new" technology there is a plethora of connectors and battery charging rates

3) Even if you locate one working with your vehicles adapter socket you are not guaranteed someone is not using the bay for normal parking

The biggest issue against the historical fore court model is the rate of charge - filling a tank can be comlpleted in under 15 minutes, last time I went to a public charging point it took that long just to connect to the service.

We are also being primed to be exploited - HMRC currently lists £0-04/mile as a business milage rate for electric vehicles (AER), first experience at a public charger was £0-23/mile (electric cost / range created).

The article however if it wanted to consider the H&S slant missed the biggest risk from this new type of vehicle - the trailing leads all over the floor (as pictured)!

You can already picture the forum of the future

- an employee tripped over an EV charging cable in the car park is it RIDDOR?

- are we liable if a member of public trips over an EV charging cable connected to a charger on our land?

Steve e ashton  
#5 Posted : 11 June 2021 09:34:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve e ashton

Are you sure your 23p per mile figure is accurate?? My diesel cost is currently almost exactly half that! I know ecars are supposed to be cheaper to maintain, but not by that margin! Are we being fed a lie about ecars being cheaper to run and recharged for pennies? Or have you dropped a decimal place (or two) ? I suspect you are correct about the rip off though. And that before the eye-watering costs of replacement batteries are factored in. I know they are getting better but my perception of battery life expectancy is jaundiced by many years of dead and dying lead acid auto (and marine, and ligion garden tool and technical equipment batteries... 

Steve e ashton  
#6 Posted : 11 June 2021 09:38:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve e ashton

Li-ion. Not ligion.... And yeah, wry observation on future forum postings😊

CptBeaky  
#7 Posted : 11 June 2021 10:06:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

My unleaded hybrid only costs around 10p per mile. If what you say is accurate I might need to wait for my electric car.

chris.packham  
#8 Posted : 11 June 2021 10:10:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

I read recently that it takes in excess of 50,000 miles in an electric vehicle before the combination of carbon footprint for manufacturing and electricity is less that that of manufacturing and fuel for a modern diesel. That study did not include any provision for the cost of disposal of end of life battery and its replacement.

Actually, I have a different concern with electric vehicles. I live in the country. To leave I have to emerge on to a single use country lane with a bend and high hedges. I am emerging in my vehicle unable to see what is coming around the bend. With internal combustion engines with the window down I can hear if a vehicle is coming. What happens with the virtually silent electic vehicle. I have already had one near miss! What is the situation with a visually impaired person crossing a road? 

thanks 1 user thanked chris.packham for this useful post.
Dazzling Puddock on 15/06/2021(UTC)
Messey  
#9 Posted : 11 June 2021 10:24:57(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Messey

I recently went to a conference discussing the roll out of EVs and the effect on Estates and safety 
The biggest issue raised (IMO) is the issue of supply. Strapped cash councils - wounded by covid- will not be able to roll out sufficient public chargers, and electrical supply companies are flagging warnings that the UK distribution network will not cope with the speed of the expected EV roll out timetable.

A speaker from an electrical supply company said there are many anxious bosses in his firm and mentioned the period between 16:30 and 19:30 on weekday evenings

As people get home and plug in their cars simultaenously , it will coincide with millions of kettles, ovens and showers - and with gas heating also in the demise, the winter will be worse - especially as EVs use more power in the cold

He said that local networks along residential streets may not have the capacity for this rush and EV charging points may have to be rationed by a curfew arrangement 

Interesting times  

Roundtuit  
#10 Posted : 11 June 2021 10:35:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: Steve e ashton Go to Quoted Post
Are you sure your 23p per mile figure is accurate?Are we being fed a lie about ecars being cheaper to run and recharged for pennies?

The charge point cost over three times my domestic kWh rate used nearly 4Kw and gave 5 miles electric range.

HMRC are being challenged by the Fleet Sector over the gap between AER and reality

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/latest-fleet-news/electric-fleet-news/2021/06/09/afp-and-bvrla-call-for-hmrc-to-review-ev-company-car-mileage-rate

Roundtuit  
#11 Posted : 11 June 2021 10:35:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: Steve e ashton Go to Quoted Post
Are you sure your 23p per mile figure is accurate?Are we being fed a lie about ecars being cheaper to run and recharged for pennies?

The charge point cost over three times my domestic kWh rate used nearly 4Kw and gave 5 miles electric range.

HMRC are being challenged by the Fleet Sector over the gap between AER and reality

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/latest-fleet-news/electric-fleet-news/2021/06/09/afp-and-bvrla-call-for-hmrc-to-review-ev-company-car-mileage-rate

Roundtuit  
#12 Posted : 11 June 2021 10:39:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: chris.packham Go to Quoted Post
What happens with the virtually silent electic vehicle.

EU type approval mandates the inclusion of a "noise" - the manufacturer installed a button to switch this off!

Roundtuit  
#13 Posted : 11 June 2021 10:39:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: chris.packham Go to Quoted Post
What happens with the virtually silent electic vehicle.

EU type approval mandates the inclusion of a "noise" - the manufacturer installed a button to switch this off!

Roundtuit  
#14 Posted : 11 June 2021 10:44:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: Messey Go to Quoted Post
A speaker from an electrical supply company said there are many anxious bosses in his firm and mentioned the period between 16:30 and 19:30 on weekday evenings.... and EV charging points may have to be rationed by a curfew arrangement

The conspiracy theorists will tell you your domestic Smart Meter can identify when a car is on charge (not hard given the surge in demand it causes) and could also be used to limit supply.

Never really trusted them having read Marc Elsberg's "Blackout"

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Dazzling Puddock on 15/06/2021(UTC), Dazzling Puddock on 15/06/2021(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#15 Posted : 11 June 2021 10:44:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: Messey Go to Quoted Post
A speaker from an electrical supply company said there are many anxious bosses in his firm and mentioned the period between 16:30 and 19:30 on weekday evenings.... and EV charging points may have to be rationed by a curfew arrangement

The conspiracy theorists will tell you your domestic Smart Meter can identify when a car is on charge (not hard given the surge in demand it causes) and could also be used to limit supply.

Never really trusted them having read Marc Elsberg's "Blackout"

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Dazzling Puddock on 15/06/2021(UTC), Dazzling Puddock on 15/06/2021(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#16 Posted : 11 June 2021 11:07:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

I like the tone of the some of the comments-essentially that we have been using petrol for years and so it is proven and intrinsically safe technology(!) while  all these batteries are new and scary and will never replace the smell of hydrocarbons and  raw of pure horsepower.

Old stuff = good while new stuff = bad!

 

 

paul.skyrme  
#17 Posted : 11 June 2021 13:42:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

I think that something has to be done to improve sustainability.

However, if I was responsible for users utilising EV's for business use & I had the knowledge I do of the UK public charging network that I have, I would not be allowing employees to use it!

It's not only the "National Grid" that can't support the load.

I have seen some public charge point installations that are downright dangerous, and nowhere near capable of carrying the load that they are going to be required to.

Some of these installations are going to go black site-wide in the event of these points being used in serious numbers.

I don't for one-second doubt that someone is going to be killed by a public charge point in the UK soon.

In fact, I think that unless something is done, it is going to be how many people have to die before something is done about it.

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Dazzling Puddock on 15/06/2021(UTC)
biker1  
#18 Posted : 11 June 2021 16:05:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

We did go through a phase of some petrol stations closing down a few years ago, and I would hazard a guess that we still have fewer of them than we did 30 years ago. The coming of electric cars will just accelerate this. Many of them have installed a shop to increase their profits, as the sale of petrol/diesel doesn't attact much profit.

On the subject of electric cars, as others have pointed out, I think we are being sold a bit of a pup. There is a commonly held belief that they are more environmentally friendly, but the evidence so far does not support this, when you consider the environmental effects of manufacture and battery disposal. You don't get anything for nothing in this world, so what appears to be a perfect solution is usually revealed to be far from the truth. The loading on the national grid will be immense, and some commentators have observed that we don't have enough generating capacity in this country, after years of shutting down power stations. But the issue of noise, or rather lack of it, is the one that is likely to have the most dangerous effect in the immediate future, and I can foresee a rise in pedestrian etc deaths.

firesafety101  
#19 Posted : 11 June 2021 20:25:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

I had a chat with an Amazon driver the other day and asked him about the electric delivery vans.  He told me he can do all his deliveries on a single charge overnight.  He said they do 100 miles but he only does about 60 everyday.

There is a downside as they break down a lot but I don't think it is due to the electrics.

My hybrid, petrol and self charging electric currently does over 50 mpg.

The reason petrol stations will close and vanish is there will soon be no petrol of diesel cars available.

Progress ?????

Ian Bell2  
#20 Posted : 13 June 2021 10:23:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

Don't rule out hydrogen as an alternative fuel source. Great effort is being put into hydrogen fuel cell technology, producing hydrogen from the electrolysis of water, using electricity.. It will still require a big increase in the National Grid capacity, but at least it won't require digging up the world for rare metals and their processing. 

Alan Haynes  
#21 Posted : 13 June 2021 11:00:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Alan Haynes

Banning the sale of new petrol/diesel cars won't get rid of such cars from the roads.

1. Any car bought just before the ban could easily still be running 10 - 15 years after the ban
2. People will still be able to buy abroad and import new cars
3. Maintenance of older cars will improve to keep them running longer
etc, etc

If I'm still around then, I'm expecting to be able to drive down to Italy, so "petrol/diesel Rules OK"

And if you want to quote figures of 300+ miles in an electric car don't bother - an acquaintance has a fancy Jag that does 300 on a charge, but somehow he can never get more than 150 miles before needing to recharge.

I do see a possible future for clean hybrids - but they're on the 'banned list ' as well
A Kurdziel  
#22 Posted : 14 June 2021 09:00:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

It will happen very quickly and suddenly;  Yes petrol/diesel will be available after that date for a bit and then the companies that make the stuff will decide that running huge plants and distribution systems is not worth the effort  and stop doing it. The price of fuel will rocket as it is  left to small scale manufacturers and  petrol driven vehicles might even become a bit of a status symbol  like a coach and horses.  But eventually the whole system will go and then the next stage will be to  get rid drivers and have self driving cars.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45786690

 

…and remember when the French Prime Minister was asked about the strategic importance of  oil in 1914, just as  we were beginning the Oil Age he said “I don’t worry about  it. If I need petrol,  I just buy from my grocer just like everybody else.”

biker1  
#23 Posted : 14 June 2021 09:13:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

There is of course a major issue regarding petrol/diesel cars, and that is the rapidly dwindling reserves of crude oil across the world. It is getting harder to access what's left; you only have to look at the set up during the Deepwater Horizon incident. Frantic attempts were made to extract more gas by fracking of the shale, but this seems to have declined amid concerns over the effects on geology. We simply can't carry on relying on oil, but what is needed is a joined up, logical approach to alternatives, which I have yet to see. Since we are the windiest country in Europe, it would make sense to generate more power from the wind, but then we hit the NIMBY syndrome. People want electricty, but won't tolerate wind turbines anywhere near them. This has forced wind farms offshore, which presents real maintenance issues, not to mention the risk to shipping. We do have some hydro-electric schemes, but with the exception of Scotland, there doesn't seem to be any move to have more. We have been shutting down coal fired power stations for a long time, but where are the viable alternatives? Some moves, albeit haltering, have been made towards increasing nuclear power, but do we really want to leave future generations with a huge radioactive waste problem?

Much lauded conferences, such as the recent G7 in Cornwall, in reality achieve little on the environment; too many vested interests. So, a cultural inertia sets in, and we just keep on bumbling along.

chris42  
#24 Posted : 14 June 2021 09:44:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Originally Posted by: Steve e ashton Go to Quoted Post

My first thought was some concern for hgv operators who will need to find ways of keeping the nation moving....


LNG powered HGV’s lower carbon, but not exactly environmentally friendly, but nothing will be.

So, all we need to do is collect the methane that cows naturally produce, use it to power the HGV’s, which in turn can delivery large amounts of toilet paper, for those panic buyers. Plus, we get to keep eating steak, wins all around.

thanks 2 users thanked chris42 for this useful post.
biker1 on 14/06/2021(UTC), Steve e ashton on 15/06/2021(UTC)
biker1  
#25 Posted : 14 June 2021 09:59:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Wow, cows could save the nation. We just have to work out a way of collecting their methane without depriving dung beetles of their food source.

thanks 1 user thanked biker1 for this useful post.
Steve e ashton on 15/06/2021(UTC)
firesafety101  
#26 Posted : 14 June 2021 10:14:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

NASA have managed to make oxygen on Mars.  I'll just leave that there 

achrn  
#27 Posted : 14 June 2021 11:46:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

Originally Posted by: Alan Haynes Go to Quoted Post
Banning the sale of new petrol/diesel cars won't get rid of such cars from the roads.

1. Any car bought just before the ban could easily still be running 10 - 15 years after the ban

That, I think, is begging the question - you're assuming that petrol stations will still be around because petrol cars will still be around to generate the demand for petrol stations.  But if the majority of car traffic goes electric (and the majority of car traffic is under 300 mile round trip, so that's already not a reason not to) then the majority of the petrol demand goes, and then people get rid of their petrol cars because it's become incovenient to find petrol. The shift to electric accelerates.

Yes there will be some people running petrol cars.  There are some people still running coal-fired steam lorries and traction engines.

Quote:

3. Maintenance of older cars will improve to keep them running longer

Not so sure about that.  I'm mindful that modern cars engines don't actually run very reliably - they keep going only when a computer tweaks and fiddles a million times a second.  I think cars built in the next few years will become unserviceable quite quickly - in much the same way as we couldn't keep one Vulcan flying but there are dozens (about 60, I believe) of airworthy Spitfires still up there.

I have a 1962 diesel engine that's 100% mechanical (hand cranked start).  It had a full strip and rebuild a couple of years ago (though actually bearing and cylinder wear was so little it's still on the originals).  The amount I run it, I expect it will still be capable of running happily in another 40 years. I can, if necesary, manufacture diesel fuel that's good enough for it from vegetable oil.  However, I very much doubt my current car engine will be running 100 years after manufacture.

Quote:

If I'm still around then, I'm expecting to be able to drive down to Italy, so "petrol/diesel Rules OK"

And if you want to quote figures of 300+ miles in an electric car don't bother - an acquaintance has a fancy Jag that does 300 on a charge, but somehow he can never get more than 150 miles before needing to recharge.

Leaving aside the fact that you're assuming there will be no improvement in range in the next ten years (what was the range and performance of electric vehicles ten years ago?)  this seems quite like a coachman proclaiming that these new-fangled internal combustion infernal things will never catch on.  Stands to reason - you'd need somewhere selling their 'petrol' in every town because they can only go 30 miles on a tank. Who's going to build a 'petroling inn' when there's no demand?  If it breaks down where will you find someone that knows how it works?  You don't need a fancy boffin to feed a horse. If you want to go the length of the country you need a good reliable coach and horses - no bother, there's an inn with stables everywhere you need it, if one throws a shoe even small villages have a blacksmith.   It's obvious 'internal combustion' will never replace the coach and horses.

Edited by user 14 June 2021 12:02:59(UTC)  | Reason: spilling

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A Kurdziel on 14/06/2021(UTC), Steve e ashton on 15/06/2021(UTC)
biker1  
#28 Posted : 14 June 2021 14:33:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

One of the problems in continuing to run petrol/diesel engined cars is going to be servicing/maintaining them. The old bangers from the distant past were probably more amenable to home maintenance. Modern cars have gone over to electronic engine management systems, which the average home mechanic will be unable to do anything with. There is greater reliance on car dealers/commercial workshops to carry out servicing, since we have moved closer to 'no user serviceable parts'. As internal combustion engine cars diminish, so will the workshops to maintain them. The trend will continue whereby mechanics are being replaced with 'technicians'.

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A Kurdziel on 14/06/2021(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#29 Posted : 14 June 2021 18:55:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Must admit there was a steep decline in sales of Haynes as more mystery vanished in to the "black box".

We are still unfortunatley in the world of "computer says" as several times with various vehicles I have had refunds because the teen running the diagnostic got it wrong and the car went back to the dealer.

Current technology is yet again well in advance of the technical colleges so there are a distinct lack of "technicians" to interrogate and repair this modern fleet.

By update I went to the public charger again - this time the shopping was only 30 minutes hooked up - added 3 miles range (woo hoo) at a revised cost of £0-35/mile.

Also found out that if I stay longer than 90 minutes at the charge point there is a penalty charge every additional 90 minutes of £10. Now given 1 mile range appears to equate to 10 minutes on charge this is going to get damned expensive to achieve full charge for the stated 38 miles of pure electric.

Any emissions scandal lawyers want to get ahead of the curve?

Roundtuit  
#30 Posted : 14 June 2021 18:55:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Must admit there was a steep decline in sales of Haynes as more mystery vanished in to the "black box".

We are still unfortunatley in the world of "computer says" as several times with various vehicles I have had refunds because the teen running the diagnostic got it wrong and the car went back to the dealer.

Current technology is yet again well in advance of the technical colleges so there are a distinct lack of "technicians" to interrogate and repair this modern fleet.

By update I went to the public charger again - this time the shopping was only 30 minutes hooked up - added 3 miles range (woo hoo) at a revised cost of £0-35/mile.

Also found out that if I stay longer than 90 minutes at the charge point there is a penalty charge every additional 90 minutes of £10. Now given 1 mile range appears to equate to 10 minutes on charge this is going to get damned expensive to achieve full charge for the stated 38 miles of pure electric.

Any emissions scandal lawyers want to get ahead of the curve?

Steve e ashton  
#31 Posted : 15 June 2021 08:31:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve e ashton

I really like the way this discussion has gone.! Thank you people for the erudition, the sharing of experience and (mostly) for the humour.! I have been here much less frequently recently., but this thread makes me want to return again. Thank you everybody😊👍

Steve e ashton  
#32 Posted : 15 June 2021 08:39:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve e ashton

For what it's worth: I see a move to replaceable, standardised batteries whereby a network of battery-swap points allows users to do long journeys without hugely long stops when the juice runs out. Drive in, drop the empty, pick up the full, off you go. This would supplement home, work and parking charger networks. Its not viable yet, but I think it'll come in the few short years I have left. But it doesn't solve the issue of heavy freight. Hydrogen may be a solution, but I have experience of hydrogen embrittlement issues and hydrogen explosions... Nothing insoluble to future generations of h&s specialists. (driven perhaps by class-action claims lawyers. The future of the profession looks secure anyway!) 

peter gotch  
#33 Posted : 15 June 2021 08:41:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Steve, you might need to visit more regularly before someone decides to introduce a system to demote you from your Super User status.

P

biker1  
#34 Posted : 15 June 2021 09:03:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Originally Posted by: Steve e ashton Go to Quoted Post

For what it's worth: I see a move to replaceable, standardised batteries whereby a network of battery-swap points allows users to do long journeys without hugely long stops when the juice runs out. Drive in, drop the empty, pick up the full, off you go. This would supplement home, work and parking charger networks. Its not viable yet, but I think it'll come in the few short years I have left. But it doesn't solve the issue of heavy freight. Hydrogen may be a solution, but I have experience of hydrogen embrittlement issues and hydrogen explosions... Nothing insoluble to future generations of h&s specialists. (driven perhaps by class-action claims lawyers. The future of the profession looks secure anyway!) 


So as with many things, we could be going full circle to the days of the pony express, where a horse was ridden to exhaustion and then replaced at the next station. I have always been a bit sceptical about using Hydrogen. It is extremely flammable (but then so is petrol), but the vision of the original airships looms, when disasters occured before they decided to go with Helium. How well would such a powered car fair in a collision, which given the declining standard of driving nowadays, is a real consideration?

Welcome back Steve.

Gerry Knowles  
#35 Posted : 15 June 2021 10:02:43(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Gerry Knowles

The issue we all face is that governments are influenced by all sorts of people and groups.  These range from scientists through lobbists through environmentalists through pressure groups.  The vast majority of these are are either a single person through to smallish groups who have roped in any number of people who like the cause they are currently shouting about.  As they always do governments tend to try and please these groups because they shout loudest and most politicans work in the short term or until the next election whatever is closest.  In all of this the real problem is often ignored in favour of pleasing the vocal minority.  

To date no one I feel has made a convincing case for switching to electric cars or those with alternate fuels which do or don't drive themselves. What ever system comes to the fore will require a vast infrastructure which will have a huge carbon footprint.  

So I feel that the government needs to look long and hard at all the options and include in that what the carbon footprint will look like.  Then make a serious decision base on the available facts. 

Who knows it may be less damaging to stay with what we have now.  As for me I'm off to buy a tandem and trailer so that me an the good lady can get around!!!!!

Edited by user 15 June 2021 10:03:55(UTC)  | Reason: Spelling error

achrn  
#36 Posted : 15 June 2021 10:18:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

Originally Posted by: Steve e ashton Go to Quoted Post

For what it's worth: I see a move to replaceable, standardised batteries whereby a network of battery-swap points allows users to do long journeys without hugely long stops when the juice runs out. Drive in, drop the empty, pick up the full, off you go.

The current problem with this approach is that modern high-energy-density batteries don't work like a tank of electricity.  They degrade quite markedly with use - think laptops that within a couple of years now have only half the battery life they had when they were new - the battery really does only have half the capacity now it had when it was new.  The treatment you give your battery quite markedly affects the rate at which it is damaged - in the extreme case, if you over-dischareg it, you can destroy the battery in one cycle.  More generally, if you keep it near half charge and run it down 10% of capacity then put that 10% back in each cycle you'll get much more total charge in and out over its lifetime than if you run it down to nearly empty each time before recharging.

So, who will exchange their new, well-cared-for battery pack with one that has an indeterminate condition?  You might swap your nice cared-for 500-mile-range battery for one that's notionally the same but has been repeatedly thrashed and is now good only for 200 miles.

A different battery technology might resolve that, but I don't think that tech has been found yet.

Quote:

But it doesn't solve the issue of heavy freight.

I reckon we need a transport network that has soem system of overhead wires to deliver electricity to the vehicles.  You'd need to make sure the vehicles tracked under the wires, so best to guide them with something like rails.  If you're going to do that it would be worth putting the effort in to minimise rolling resistance, gradients and so on - I might go for hard - maybe even even steel rails and wheels.  I'd call it a 'rails-way'.  I reckon you could have long chains or 'trains' of trucks pulled on the rails-way.  I don't think it will ever catch on, though. 

thanks 2 users thanked achrn for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 15/06/2021(UTC), biker1 on 15/06/2021(UTC)
achrn  
#37 Posted : 15 June 2021 10:24:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

Originally Posted by: Gerry Knowles Go to Quoted Post

So I feel that the government needs to look long and hard at all the options and include in that what the carbon footprint will look like.  Then make a serious decision base on the available facts. 


As if that's going to happen! Have you seen our government in action?

A Kurdziel  
#38 Posted : 15 June 2021 10:25:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Achrn might be onto something:

I’ve heard of something similar and perhaps they could combine it with something similar to this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scammell_Mechanical_Horse for the last few miles to the actual delivery address.

Edited by user 15 June 2021 10:26:02(UTC)  | Reason: spellings

biker1  
#39 Posted : 15 June 2021 10:28:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Come back George Stevenson, all is forgiven.

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