Rank: Forum user 
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Good Afternoon All We have engaged a local 360 degree excavator driver and machine to take up some concrete slabs for us. I have asked him for his insurance and copy of his NPORS card with which he obliged. When I asked for the RaMs he Insisted that because he is only working day work and not on a price, he doesnt need RaMs and we should supply them because he is working under our umbrellaand instruction. My boss out of desperation wants to believe the excavator driver. Can I show him the popular concensus on this please ?
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Rank: Super forum user
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Kloppite - given that the plant operator only controls the operation of the plant and probably not even its hire, and certainly not the environment in which the excavator is being used, my view is that you should probably be the ones controlling documentation that affects not only the excavator operator. Incidentally, I don't think the terms for payment are relevant. P
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 1 user thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
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Rank: Forum user
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I am guessing that he is a one man (person) band, and is working on the assumption that as he has less than five employees he does not need a written health and safety system. If he is I think that he has misssed the point a little. He has probably been saying that that he does not need one for a long time.
You have contracted him to carry out works on your premises, which in this case uses a excavator to dig out some concrete slabs. If, I was running the job, I would expect him to submit a risk assessment for the work he is going to do including all the control measures he has to put in place before excavation can start, like the identification of utility services (water, gas, sewage, power) and how he will interact with your operations such as local traffic, pedestrians, buildings etc. He in conjunction with you should identify where the removed concrete is to be stored or if it is to be directly loaded into a skip or vehicle where they are going to park. This is not an exhaustive list. In his method statement he should identify how he is going to carry out the work, and how he will deal with any unexpected circumstances such as buried hazardous waste etc. He should do all this prior to the work being started. You should agree both of the documents and sign them off before the work commences. So would I want him to do a risk assessment yes I would. I hope this is helpful Edited by user 18 August 2021 15:09:00(UTC)
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Rank: Super forum user 
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The stable door should be kept firmly shut until opened.
No good asking for RAMS after they have been engaged. If your manager wants to let this machine loose without a plan better be ready with the full list of emergency numbers including a good solicitor.
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4 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user
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The stable door should be kept firmly shut until opened.
No good asking for RAMS after they have been engaged. If your manager wants to let this machine loose without a plan better be ready with the full list of emergency numbers including a good solicitor.
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4 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
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Rank: Forum user
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Originally Posted by: Gerry Knowles  I am guessing that he is a one man (person) band, and is working on the assumption that as he has less than five employees he does not need a written health and safety system. If he is I think that he has misssed the point a little. He has probably been saying that that he does not need one for a long time.
You have contracted him to carry out works on your premises, which in this case uses a excavator to dig out some concrete slabs. If, I was running the job, I would expect him to submit a risk assessment for the work he is going to do including all the control measures he has to put in place before excavation can start, like the identification of utility services (water, gas, sewage, power) and how he will interact with your operations such as local traffic, pedestrians, buildings etc. He in conjunction with you should identify where the removed concrete is to be stored or if it is to be directly loaded into a skip or vehicle where they are going to park. This is not an exhaustive list. In his method statement he should identify how he is going to carry out the work, and how he will deal with any unexpected circumstances such as buried hazardous waste etc. He should do all this prior to the work being started. You should agree both of the documents and sign them off before the work commences. So would I want him to do a risk assessment yes I would. I hope this is helpful
We have carried out all the enableing works, Cat and Gen Scan, Heras Fencing and RaMs for our side of the works. All we want is the operators Method Statement and Risk Assessments. He is under the impression that because he is working under our instruction and is not the main contractor he does not need them.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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He may not "need" RAMS but you, the client, do need RAMS. One of you has got to produce it. Or even better, you could produce it together as each of you has part of the picture (he knows about his machine and you know about the environment, task and site rules).
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