Posted By Ron Young
Lets all hear it for the "Andrew". Booties are OK too!

Posted By Ron Young
I've definitely noticed a reduction in older smokers (reformed & I suppose natural wastage) but the young are very much into it. So I suppose if you frequent pubs designed for the young, you will not see a change but for all the boring old farts (me included) I agree with Arran (honest), that smoking has decreased amongst the BOF's!

Posted By Dave Wilson
When I joined the Mob in '76 the first bit of paper I was aked to sign before I had my haircut and 'signed on' was a chitty to get Duty free fags and was then given 100 on the spot. Was then allowed 300 month thereafter.

You can get 50 'big' King eddies in Norway from EFI for £5. Didnt half make you sick.

Posted By Jason Gould
Its still going on. I dont believe it.

Right guys & gals lets get down to some facts.

Smoking Kills (we all know that)

Car accidents happen for plenty of reasons

Passive smoking has been proven to cause cancer.

I did a bit of looking up but not too indepth. Here are some of the facts.

FACT 1

The EPA report classified secondhand smoke as a Group A carcinogen, a designation which means that there is sufficient evidence that the substance causes cancer in humans. The Group A designation has been used by EPA for only 15 other pollutants, including asbestos, radon, and benzene. Only secondhand smoke has actually been shown in studies to cause cancer at typical environmental levels.

Well done it has been proven that passive smoke causes cancer.

FACT 2

EPA estimates that secondhand smoke is responsible for about 3,000 lung cancer deaths each year among nonsmokers in the U.S.; of these, the estimate is 800 from exposure to secondhand smoke at home and 2,200 from exposure in work or social situations

CAN A NUMBER CRUNCHER BREAK THIS DOWN FOR THE POPPULATION AVERAGE IN THE UK COMPARED TO AMERICA

The eleven studies used to provide fact 2 was based on women who lived with a smoker and high smoking work environments and social places.

Lots more on this address
http://www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/strsfs.html

In all I agree with facts and these are facts.

So In my opinion looking at the numbers and if I was a non smoker I would draw a conclusion that as long as i was not living with a smoker and never did an 8hr shift in a smoking office or bar etc,(rough generalisation) I would be at low risk of developing any significant damage by walking past strangers smoking at a doorway or the person smoking next to me in a resturant.

If I was in a area when smoking was exposed to significant amount of smoke I would definatly think twice and figure out the risk to me.

I certanly would not develop a hysterical impulsion to condem every smoker as a potential threat to my health. Theres a lot more risk to worry about.

We go back to choice and like it or not a lot of non smokers choose to sit with a smoker and take their chances.

So as stated earlier, are we talking about RISK or INTOLLERANCE to others.

I think the latter is true and Die hard anti passive smokers are being a little to harsh.

I would suggest to you that though there may be the case of inconsideration by smokers towards the people around them, most sensible adult smokers will all agree that it is wise to reduce the ammount of passive smoke in the workplace and in some public places especially when in small bars etc.

However as I stated in earlier comments, I can never agree that banning smoking in public places altogether, can justified with the use of the words health risk.

The words over reaction comes to mind on the subject of passive smoking.

Dont get me wrong I hate smoking (plenty of times blown out by women the minute I sparked up)

I hate the smell (rolling one up right now)

It probably will kill me (praying there will be a cure)

As for passive smoke near children I am totally aginst as they dont have the choice to assess the risk for themselves.

So I leave you with a final thought.

Safety folk are often accused of over reaction and unrealistic outlooks on life. Lets not fuel this perception.

Regards

Jason

Posted By Raymond Rapp
Geoff has summed up the situation succinctly, I am not saying this because he agreed with my earlier comment but..I think the subject has been discussed to death.

Clearly, there have been some supersillious comments amongst some quite sensible ones. In truth, the subject as suggested earlier is not worth the effort spent on it, and should have died into oblivion.

Hopefully, Ken may come up with something more enlightening and less emotive in future threads.

Ray

Posted By Ian Stone
Anyone see that Pizza Hut has now banned smoking at all its restaurants, to protect customers and staff from passive smoking. is this a sight of things to come?

Posted By Dave Wilson
in all honesty I was under the impression that Macccy D, BKing, Pizza hut and similar fast food joints were 'No smoking' anyway.

Posted By Ron Young
Hilary,

I do take offence at your attitude to the overweight/obese. Not all have BO problems and I might add there are many normal weight people I know who tend to smell a bit "ripe" as the day wears on.

Posted By Ron Young
just playing devils advocate from the way the posting read

Posted By Geoff Burt
Actually Ken, if you read your original posting you didn't mention anything about consideration for others, you were advocating a total ban at H&S events.

Shall we start again?

Posted By Andy Petrie
If we ban smoking how are we going to support the NHS?

Are all the non smokers going to be happy with a huge tax increase to support the welfare state? doubt it.

How will we cope when alll the people who die from smoking related inlesses live to a ripe old age, our pension system can't manage as it is.

I know this sounds brutal, but they are factors that we have to consider. As far as the economy goes, smoking is good fo the country.

Posted By Ken Taylor
As a 'footnote' on this one, I have just returned from the IOSH Public Services Symposium at York and would like to express appreciation of the improved conditions for tobacco smoke avoiders this year. Smoking only appeared to take place outside the buildings at some distance and in the bar - and, even there, there was a notice asking people not to smoke where the staff were serving and there was a non-smoking area too!
Thankyou York University and IOSH.